# Is there a GQ response to the right wing marketing of gold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433 "2009-11-13T12:12:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/81 "2015-03-25T18:27:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The people who bought collectible gold coins from Goldline, _et al_. (who were essentially the subject of the thread), probably lost quite a bit of money. I missed the OP’s distinction between bullion and collectible coins. Where did you see it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/82 "2015-03-25T18:28:31Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > If we assume that your post is saying gold was a good investment at that point, then you saying so was also incorrect. This would be the case even for those who purchased it when the thread was started as well unless they got out right about then. Why would you assume my post said that? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/83 "2015-03-25T18:36:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that Gold is by no means proof vs inflation. And if the Dollar gets devalued, you better have the previously mentions canned goods and guns. If. From 2009 until now the dollar has done a lot better than gold. From [here.](http://www.x-rates.com/average/?from=USD&to=EUR&amount=1.00&year=2015) - In 2009 a dollar would get you about .7 Euros. Now it will get you .9 Euros. Not that this strong dollar is good for our economy, though. It is hurting the profitability of a number of companies. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/84 "2015-03-25T18:36:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > With only a few notable exceptions (like Silver Thursday), gold and silver are “safe” investments. They don’t fluctuate like stock markets do, and in the long term they never decrease in value. [Not really](http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/gold/gold_inflation_chart.htm). Just noticed I fed the zombie. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/85 "2015-03-25T18:43:57Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Huh? Gold has maintained its purchasing power for hundreds of years. That’s why the expected real (inflation-adjusted) return of gold is precisely zero. This is not true at all. Some time ago I did a comparo of the purchasing price of gold compared to a meal and the price of gold has shifted radically. But for example in 2002 a MRE cost you about $4 (it’s $5 now). One oz would buy you 65 meals in 2002 but 365 meals in 2011. A nice dinner in the late 1800 was $1, which a oz of gold would get you 18 of. Back in roman times a meals was about a Sestertius so a oz would get you 400 meals. During Gold rush times a oz might get you three decent meals. So 3, 18, 65, 365, 400. Steady purchasing price, eh? A quality suit today is about $500, so two suits. Here;'s a chart of gold prices adjusted for inflation: [http://www.macrotrends.net/chart/1333/gold-and-silver-prices-100-year-historical-chart](http://www.macrotrends.net/chart/1333/gold-and-silver-prices-100-year-historical-chart) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/86 "2015-03-25T18:46:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Only that the suggestion in 2009 that people were going to lose money buying gold was incorrect. Yes if they bought gold in 2009 and sold in 2011, they would have made money. If they bought in 2011 and sold it today, they’d have lost money. So on March 23, 2015, is it a good time to buy gold or sell gold? Is the price of gold going to go up, adjusted for inflation, or go down? When should I buy and when should I sell? According to gold bugs it’s always a good time to buy gold and never a good time to sell gold, because gold always, always, always, increases in value. The problem with this theory is that it is not true. Gold sometimes increases in value relative to various currencies and sometimes decreases in value. So is gold a buy today, or a sell today? It’s always possible to look over the spot price for gold, pick a time when gold was cheap and say you should have bought then, and pick a time when gold was expensive and say you should have sold then and prove that gold would make you a fortune. But I could easily do the opposite, make you buy in the past when gold was high and sell when gold was low, and you’re bankrupt. So today, on March 23 2015 does Bricker Investements recommend buying gold or selling gold? ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/87 "2015-03-25T19:00:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …A nice dinner… A quality suit… Not that I disagree with your premise, but there is a lot of wiggle room hidden in the words “nice” and “quality” since meals and suits come in a very wide range of prices. In fact I have seen these examples used by gold bugs to show that gold really does maintain its value over time, just by changing the price point at which a meal becomes “nice” and a suit becomes “quality”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/88 "2015-03-25T19:25:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I missed the OP’s distinction between bullion and collectible coins. Where did you see it? In the thread title, where it says “right wing marketing of gold.” The ads on Beck and like shows are invariably for coins, even if they’re run by companies which also sell bullion and certificates. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/89 "2015-03-25T19:32:39Z")
Of course those guys are advertising collectible coins; there’s no margin in selling bullion, so why would you advertise it? ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/90 "2015-03-25T20:02:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In the thread title, where it says “right wing marketing of gold.” The ads on Beck and like shows are invariably for coins, even if they’re run by companies which also sell bullion and certificates. This is related to paranoia about a repeat of [executive order 6102](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) which confiscated “monetary” gold as part of a revaluation in the 1930s. There was an exemption for coins of artistic merit, and people are imaging that the “collectible-ness” of the coins will grant them an exception from a future such action. That coins allow gold sellers to sell the same gold for more money is just a coincidence, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/91 "2015-03-25T20:04:11Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Not that I disagree with your premise, but there is a lot of wiggle room hidden in the words “nice” and “quality” since meals and suits come in a very wide range of prices. In fact I have seen these examples used by gold bugs to show that gold really does maintain its value over time, just by changing the price point at which a meal becomes “nice” and a suit becomes “quality”. True. but if you just compare the price of a MRE you get wild deviations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/92 "2015-03-25T20:06:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In the thread title, where it says “right wing marketing of gold.” The ads on Beck and like shows are invariably for coins, even if they’re run by companies which also sell bullion and certificates. (1) I haven’t seen the ads because I don’t watch the shows, but I’ll take your word for it, except to point out that: (2) Coins are can be bullion, too The American Eagle, like the Chinese Panda and the Canadian Maple Leaf, are sold as collectible, BU or Proof coins, yes – but they’re also sold in regular 1 ounce coins for the purpose of buying one ounce of gold. So you tell me: were the ads for coins that were graded by PCGS? Did they say things like “Proof,” or “BU” or “MS-70?” Or was it simply, “Buy gold coins?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/93 "2015-03-25T20:08:21Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Of course those guys are advertising collectible coins; there’s no margin in selling bullion, so why would you advertise it? Bullion sellers advertise. The first several results from a Google search for “gold bullion dealers” are advertiser-sponsired (i.e. paid) results. And of course there’s margin (albeit razor-thin) in bullion, which is why there’s a difference between the buy and sell spot price. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/94 "2015-03-25T20:18:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why would you assume my post said that? So you posted to say that gold was a good investment. Except when it’s not. Pure gold! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/95 "2015-03-25T20:46:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Bullion sellers advertise. > > The first several results from a Google search for “gold bullion dealers” are advertiser-sponsired (i.e. paid) results. > > And of course there’s margin (albeit razor-thin) in bullion, which is why there’s a difference between the buy and sell spot price. [The link in post #48](http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=5D43B4E3-18FE-70B2-A8DE8D26EF48DDFE) is still active. Real bullion dealers don’t have extensive marketing campaigns: [INDENT]…anyone interested in buying gold primarily as an investment vehicle would be wise to avoid many of the big-advertising American gold coin retailers, because they typically sell coins for many times the value of the gold they contain, according to Nadler and Dennis Gartman, editor of an eponymous financial news service. ## …[they] have a markup “so egregiously high the only thing you can call them is shysters.” [/INDENT] The economics is straightforward. Oligopolists advertise a lot, since they have both margin and competition. Ad budgets decline when the product becomes more of a commodity. And as noted in post 68, Goldline in particular has been subject to criminal investigation, notwithstanding glowing endorsements by Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin, Mike Huckabee and Fred Thompson. [Cite](http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/02/359156/goldline-international-fraud/). This is something akin to [affinity fraud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_fraud). As for discussion of bullion prices, gold skeptics understand that gold prices fluctuate. In other words it’s a risky investment. So discussion of 1.5 year gains is a little silly, as noted upthread. [My chart](http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_14273158048916&key=ce270d38103a630c3181db372a25a052&libId=i7p6vqmb010004p6000DLtyzhi75&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fboards.straightdope.com%2Fsdmb%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D539805&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwm40.inbox.com%2Fthumbs%2F82_130b3c_ba385d29_oP.png.thumb&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fboards.straightdope.com%2Fsdmb%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D18236835&title=Straight%20Dope%20Message%20Board%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwm40.inbox.com%2Fthumbs%2F82_130b...9_oP.png.thumb) shows the fluctuations since this thread was started: Bricker’s post was near the first peak. More generally, gold performs a lot like a currency that doesn’t pay interest. See post 37. It is not an especially good inflation hedge. But gold and collectables have an allure which the investor pays for in the form of lower average returns. That’s not snark: it’s investment theory. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/96 "2015-03-25T21:01:26Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > So you posted to say that gold was a good investment. Except when it’s not. > > Pure gold! Not exactly, although I suppose it’s difficult to dispute the truism into which you contort my post. I posted to observe that in 2009, the OP derided those who thought buying gold was a profitable idea, and yet in 2011, a person who bought gold in 2009 could sell it at a handsome markup. That valid observation does not generalize to a claim that gold is always a good investment, that gold is never a good investment, or into some sort of truism along the lines of your attempt at a summary. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/97 "2015-03-25T21:06:41Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > [The link in post #48](http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=5D43B4E3-18FE-70B2-A8DE8D26EF48DDFE) is still active. Real bullion dealers don’t have extensive marketing campaigns: [INDENT]…anyone interested in buying gold primarily as an investment vehicle would be wise to avoid many of the big-advertising American gold coin retailers, because they typically sell coins for many times the value of the gold they contain, according to Nadler and Dennis Gartman, editor of an eponymous financial news service. > > …[they] have a markup “so egregiously high the only thing you can call them is shysters.” [/INDENT] How did we get from _don’t advertise_ to _are not ‘big advertisers?’_ Are you defending **Dewey Finn** ’s claim that “there’s no margin in selling bullion, so why would you advertise it?” If you are, can you explain why you feel that information about "big advertising"companies rebuts a claim that real bullion dealers don’t advertise? What do you regard as a fair price, today, for a 1 oz. American Gold Eagle? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/98 "2015-03-25T21:07:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So you tell me: were the ads for coins that were graded by PCGS? Did they say things like “Proof,” or “BU” or “MS-70?” Or was it simply, “Buy gold coins?” “Buy gold coins.” They certainly left out the “30% markup” part. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/99 "2015-03-25T21:12:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Here;'s a chart of gold prices adjusted for inflation: > [http://www.macrotrends.net/chart/1333/gold-and-silver-prices-100-year-historical-chart](http://www.macrotrends.net/chart/1333/gold-and-silver-prices-100-year-historical-chart) That site has other informative graphs, e.g. [http://www.macrotrends.net/chart/1437/gold-to-s-p-500-ratio](http://www.macrotrends.net/chart/1437/gold-to-s-p-500-ratio) Note that if you’d sold all your gold and bought New York stocks at the _height_ of the September 1929 bubble _before the Crash_, you’d still be better off today than if you’d kept the gold. And note that such _comparisons with S&P 500 almost always ignore the dividends_ you’d have collected from your stocks, as well as security costs incurred by goldbugs lest metal scavengers chance on their underground hoard. Those touting gold today surely can’t emphasize past performance. (I’ve not studied the YouTubes but I think the concern is the alliance between Illuminati and Gog and Magog versus Jesus and the Patriots, and is less about love of gold than fear of paper money issued by Kenyan terrorists.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433/100 "2015-03-25T21:13:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Buy gold coins.” They certainly left out the “30% markup” part. So are you saying they sold gold bullion coins for 30% over spot price? That they sold numismatic coins for 30% over their value, somehow? I’m not at all clear what you’re saying they did. If they advertised simply “Buy gold coins,” then what, precisely did they then do wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-gq-response-to-the-right-wing-marketing-of-gold/517433.md?page=6)