# Is there a halfway-possible way for a warship to be salvagable, 30 years after sinking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747 "2014-04-23T05:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/1 "2014-04-23T05:25:31Z")
It’s for a germ of a story—I want to take an [Iowa class](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa-class_battleship) warship, sunk somewhere in the Atlantic, somehow raised and restored to operation about 30 years after being sunk. Without, y’know, just being a pile of rusty snot. My question: Is there any farfetched, utterly implausible, yet not physically impossible way I could do this, short of having the ship gently come to rest in a giant puddle of latex held in place by pixie fairies? Any kind of weird natural geological, hydrological, or chemical process that would make it at least halfway plausible? The story’s a long ways off, and the tone of the thing is such that I could handwave away an explanation—but still, I’d like to check to see if I could at least pay \*lip service \*to an explanation that kinda _sounds_ like it’d work. I’m silly that way. Anyone want to (a)weigh in? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/2 "2014-04-23T05:39:41Z")
No Iowa class warship was ever sunk and all remain as museums. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/3 "2014-04-23T05:59:42Z")
Anything outside of Pearl Harbor wherein the ships were not fully submerged and workmen were able to re-float them in less than three years is highly unlikely. I’m talking about capital ships here. Deep sea water is highly acidic. Corrosion is faster as you get colder and deeper. Sinking fast down to the ocean floor is likely to cause (further) damage to your structures. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/4 "2014-04-23T06:09:09Z")
The only thing I can think of that might help your hypo is if the _Iowa_ class in question was sunk in a highly [anoxic environment like the Black Sea](http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/faculty/jmurray/BlackSeaOverview.pdf). To the scientists in the (virtual) room: would a highly anoxic environment significantly degrade the progress of rust that we’d otherwise expect from 30 years of ocean submergence? Is the _Tirpitz_ or one of the dreadnoughts from Scapa Flow in a cold environment, such that they could be raised and retrofitted to some sort of Turtledovian-service? EDIT: The reason I ask about Scapa is that the ships that get harvested (for pre-atomic steel) look to be in fairly “good” condition, at least compared to the wrecks I’m used to seeing pictures of from Rabaul and Chuuk (Truk) lagoon. ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/5 "2014-04-23T06:13:21Z")
Thirty years ago? The only warship I can think of lost about that time was the Argntine cruiser General Belgrano, sunk by a British sub in the Falklands War. It was an old American WW ll cruiser, (USS Phoenix?). Other than that, the German Battleship Bismarck lies out there in the Atlantic, somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/6 "2014-04-23T06:40:20Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > …Other than that, the German Battleship Bismarck lies out there in the Atlantic, somewhere. Robert Ballard found it. [Others have found it since then.](http://www.kbismarck.com/wreck.html) Correct on the _Belgrano_. I’d opine that _[Kursk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Kursk_(K-141))_ was a more formidable naval combatant, but probably not in a condition to be raised and go right to fighting… “Mongo” was all that and a bag of chips though, provided she could get decent target location data and (maybe) midcourse guidance for her missiles. 24 [Granits/Shipwrecks](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-700_Granit) would be a bitch to deal with, even considering they’d be coming in on one threat axis. (I wonder if they’ve the capability to be programmed to encircle the target “basket” and come in from all axes? The wiki suggests they can already talk to each other and get targeting data from the one missile that’s radiating.) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/7 "2014-04-23T10:15:54Z")
There was a Russian submarine they tried to salvage because of its nuclear reactor. In reality though your talking about raising 100’s of tons of steel, fixing whatever holes in it, then towing it back to port to repair the other stuff. It wouldnt be worth the expense unless as someone said it sunk in a harbor where this could easily be done. Making it a warship again wouldnt work because naval designs change so often. Even modern ships need expensive rehauls every 10 years or so. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/8 "2014-04-23T12:46:52Z")
You could save the hull by galvanic protection if you had a huge amount of aluminium and did it just right. It would never work (30 years is a long time), but it’s credible in a “but that will never work” kind of way. I also like the idea of landing it in some kind of really really big oxygen free dead zone – it works for small objects, you’d just have to wave your hands a bit. Most ships are unsalvageable because they are broken before they go underwater. If it wasn’t for that, they’d last a couple of years anyway: ships are expected to get wet and not disolve. But thirty years is a fairly long time for a hull that is not galvanically protected – one reason they scrap ships is because the hull gets too thin to repair. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/9 "2014-04-23T14:05:46Z")
The interesting part to me is the idea of how you would possibly raise a warship from the depths of the sea, rather than a harbor? It’s a novel (or so I thought reading the OP) so money is no object. Just how to get done ? My idea is the mad scientist develops some type of poly X foam lighter than air that will expand against the pressure of the depths. Little robots go down hauling pressurized containers and slowly fill the guts of the warship. Once it hits the buoyancy point, Watch out above !!! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/10 "2014-04-23T14:14:28Z")
Not entirely germane to the discussion, except in the fictional sense, but this is similar to the idea in the anime [Space Battleship Yamato](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato). The trick they pulled there was an alien attack which dried up all the oceans, exposing the centuries old hulk to be salvaged and refitted for space duty (!). ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/11 "2014-04-23T14:23:51Z")
Correction on my previous post. That would be Poly X foam lighter than water… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/12 "2014-04-23T14:39:35Z")
Even if you can’t bring up a useable vessel, you can still get valuable salvage from an old shipwreck. Mostly, the draw is metals with lower than normal radioactivity: Lead ballast from ancient galleons has been shielded from cosmic rays for centuries, and steel from WWII warships was forged before the atomic age. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/13 "2014-04-23T14:40:03Z")
I think the USS Oklahoma is still undiscovered (but that’s going back about 70 years). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/14 "2014-04-23T14:40:55Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Not entirely germane to the discussion, except in the fictional sense, but this is similar to the idea in the anime [Space Battleship Yamato](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato). The trick they pulled there was an alien attack which dried up all the oceans, exposing the centuries old hulk to be salvaged and refitted for space duty (!). Ninja’d on the _Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers_ reference 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/15 "2014-04-23T15:58:51Z")
Side track here: what’s so special about pre-WWII/pre-Atomic steel? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/16 "2014-04-23T16:00:56Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > Side track here: what’s so special about pre-WWII/pre-Atomic steel? [The Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2971/is-steel-from-scuttled-german-warships-valuable-because-it-isn-t-contaminated-with-radioactivity) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/17 "2014-04-23T16:04:07Z")
If you’re shooting for a more believable way to recover a ship, there’s the Mothball Fleet near San Francisco, where they have ships going back to WWII sitting at anchor; the plot could have been that a ship that was supposed to be sunk got mothballed instead (either by mistake or design) and when somebody figured out what was sitting out there in plain sight, shenanigans ensued. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/18 "2014-04-23T16:40:54Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Deep sea water is highly acidic. Corrosion is faster as you get colder and deeper. Deep sea water is actually [slightly alkaline](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VKjZhxJ_ZLw/UFBal_a6TrI/AAAAAAAAAAU/H1xMmlC06Pw/s640/pH-TCO2.png): pH in the ocean varies, but is usually between 7.2 and 8.2, with the very deep waters varying around 7.5-8.0. But you are correct that it is a highly corrosive environment, though. Salt for steel & other iron-bearing metals to survive well, especially in the realm of 30 years. Some folks have mentioned anoxic environments, which might be the best hope of survival for a steel ship - you can’t rust all that iron in the steel without oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/19 "2014-04-23T16:55:26Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > There was a Russian submarine they tried to salvage because of its nuclear reactor. > > In reality though your talking about raising 100’s of tons of steel, fixing whatever holes in it, then towing it back to port to repair the other stuff. It wouldnt be worth the expense unless as someone said it sunk in a harbor where this could easily be done. > > Making it a warship again wouldnt work because naval designs change so often. Even modern ships need expensive rehauls every 10 years or so. No doubt, better to go after a nuclear warhead that it may have had in it’s arsenal than to actually salvage the vessel. Much more plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747/20 "2014-04-23T17:39:09Z")
Pardon the hijack, but looking at the Wikipedia site about pre-atomic steel (which is called “[low-background steel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel)” in the article) led me to a page on [Operation Deadlight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Deadlight), the scuttling of Nazi Uboats after WWII. I was a bit surprised to read this: > [@](#): > > In the late nineties an approach was made to the British Ministry of Defence for salvage rights on the Operation Deadlight U-boats… > > No salvage award was made due to objections from Russia and the USA, and it is now probable that the U-boats will remain under the sea. Why would those countries have opposed this salvage? Any ideas? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-halfway-possible-way-for-a-warship-to-be-salvagable-30-years-after-sinking/686747.md?page=2)