# Is there a left/right bias in dealing with hyperbolic posters? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 26, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571 "2010-01-26T21:22:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/101 "2010-02-02T22:02:55Z")
**magellan01** said: > [@](#): > > I appreciate the distinction you, and Zoe, makes regarding the words “Freedom of Religion”. I do. But as I think I explained in my previous post to her, I don’t see how that matters. She still seems to think that “hostility, intolerance, and simplicity” in regards to F of R is necessarily an attribute of the right. And that is blind partisanship. > [@](#): > > For the purposes of what I’ve been saying, there’s very little difference. Whether one believes that hostility, intolerance, and simplicity are antithetical to one political persuasion or if they exist that they necessarily belong to the other is similar evidence of blind partisanship. I think I see what you are saying, and I think you have a valid point. The problem is that the Left advocate “tolerance” as one of their key values. Tolerance, diversity, respect for different views - all these are hallmarks of the Left. So given that, it is disconcerting to see someone with left-leaning positions on topics also failing to hold these key Left values. That dischord is what **Zoe** and **Zeriel** are expressing. How can he truly be a member of the Left if he doesn’t express the values of the Left? Which doesn’t make him a member of the Right, just makes him… out of place. Undefined? That’s why they talk about a different axis and what not. But from your perspective, he has intolerant position way on the extreme left, and being intolerant doesn’t change the fact that the positions he holds are from the far left. That much I agree with. It’s kinda like the difference between a hardcore fascist and a libertarian - both approach the world from a right-leaning position, but they are vastly different in what they want to achieve. **CircleofWillis** , good point. Have we successfully hijacked this thread enough for mod intervention? :o ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/102 "2010-02-02T22:14:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are we mistaken, or did you, in another recent thread, decry the use of the term “we” by other posters who presume to speak for members of a larger group? If so, we apologize. So, that’s what a petard looks like up close. :smack: Of course this is not precisely what I was complaining about. “We” in terms of humans would be fine. As would it be if referring to some other broad group: Americans, athletes, U2 fans, etc. The problem my Solomonic rule is designed to avoid is a thread taking on a mob mentality, where the target simply must be crushed, regardless of the strength of any one particular argument. But, it is rather too good that this came back to bite me. Hoist away! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/103 "2010-02-02T22:18:25Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **magellan01** said: > > I think I see what you are saying, and I think you have a valid point. The problem is that the Left advocate “tolerance” as one of their key values. Tolerance, diversity, respect for different views - all these are hallmarks of the Left. So given that, it is disconcerting to see someone with left-leaning positions on topics also failing to hold these key Left values. That dischord is what **Zoe** and **Zeriel** are expressing. How can he truly be a member of the Left if he doesn’t express the values of the Left? Which doesn’t make him a member of the Right, just makes him… out of place. Undefined? That’s why they talk about a different axis and what not. > > But from your perspective, he has intolerant position way on the extreme left, and being intolerant doesn’t change the fact that the positions he holds are from the far left. That much I agree with. > > It’s kinda like the difference between a hardcore fascist and a libertarian - both approach the world from a right-leaning position, but they are vastly different in what they want to achieve. Thank you for taking the time to consider this more deeply. You identify the key problem right up front: that the left identifies tolerance as one of their values—in fact, not only values, but _attributes_. and when anyone starts from the premise that their side is owns positive human traits, you wind up making the kind of arguments I responded to. ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/104 "2010-02-02T22:20:04Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **magellan01** The problem is that the Left advocate “tolerance” as one of their key values. Tolerance, diversity, respect for different views - all these are hallmarks of the Left. So given that, it is disconcerting to see someone with left-leaning positions on topics also failing to hold these key Left values. I know you are talking to **magellan01** , but if I may add my 1.33 cents… this is as much a meme as the turn-the-other-cheek, love-thy-neighbor, Ten-Commandments-following fundamentalist Christian that is so reviled here. They simply don’t exist in the real world. Humans are way too inconsistent to be able to follow a strict line of their own propaganda. They talk a good game about what _ **YOU** _ should do, but in their own lives? Not a fucking chance. > [@Irishman](#): > > **CircleofWillis** , good point. Have we successfully hijacked this thread enough for mod intervention? :o When it’s started by a moderator? You do the math. :smack: ..and now that i have hijacked this thing myself… a self-GOTCHA ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/105 "2010-02-02T22:21:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I don’t really agree with this, personally, exactly the opposite–I believe that hostility, intolerance, and simplicity are antithetical to all mainstream political positions. That people who claim to be on this side or that will take those strategies doesn’t say anything important about the positions themselves in the main. Actually, I think you’re agreeing with me. My point is that it is erroneous to think that presence of hostility, intolerance, or simplicity (to a fault), either excludes one from a group. Or places him in another. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/106 "2010-02-03T01:58:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Actually, I think you’re agreeing with me. My point is that it is erroneous to think that presence of hostility, intolerance, or simplicity (to a fault), either excludes one from a group. Or places him in another. I think what I’m saying is closer to the idea that there’s realistically a four-way set of groupings (I like the conservative divide proposed of libertarian vs. fascist but I’m not sure I’ve got equivalent terms about the left–perhaps progressive vs. soviet-communist?)–simply because I think it’s a better model and will serve any discussions of the overall tone better. One could envision scenarios whereby one could say that the board tends to be harsher on fascistic posters than general, but from my point of view there’s not really a generalized left vs. right moderation bias–one could argue either that dickish behavior is less tolerated from fascistic posters than communist ones, or that fascistic posters are more common than communists (where the opposite is probably true of libertarian vs. progressive posters) without really saying anything either way about any posters actually worth reading on a consistent basis. But yeah, I can agree that the hostile/intolerant-vs-polite/tolerant set of behavior traits is more or less orthogonal to the left-vs-right set of traits. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/107 "2010-02-03T02:49:06Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > … Let’s hijack the thread and play some lame, smarmy-ass game of gotcha in order to ignore the theme of the thread and pile on someone we (and I say we cuz I dont give a fuck about hte whole we or I thing) don’t like. > > Oh wait… Your right, I’m sorry. We (:smack:) now return you to the original theme of the thread; [del]“Is there a left/right bias in dealing with hyperbolic posters?”[/del] the (now multi-thread) let’s ban **Der Trihs** , someone we (:dubious:) don’t like, pile on. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/108 "2010-02-03T03:19:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But, it is rather too good that this came back to bite me. Hoist away! Kudos for maintaining a sense of humor. More seriously though, I think this demonstrates that working out mod rules that are both sound and can be enforced transparently is a lot harder than it might appear at first. > [@](#): > > You identify the key problem right up front: that the left identifies tolerance as one of their values—in fact, not only values, but attributes. Sort of. The far left (commies et al) doesn’t really embrace tolerance so much. And the center wonkish left sees good policy as an extension of good management. All that said, the Norman Lear left does embrace tolerance, IMHO. And there is widespread disapproval of virulent bigotry within the mainstream, which is something other than advocacy of tolerance _per se_. ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/109 "2010-02-03T03:26:20Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Your right, I’m sorry. > > We (:smack:) now return you to the original theme of the thread; [del]“Is there a left/right bias in dealing with hyperbolic posters?”[/del] the (now multi-thread) let’s ban **Der Trihs** , someone we (:dubious:) don’t like, pile on. > > CMC fnord! Trust me on this one, it’s not about Der Trihs for me. Der Trihs is just currently one of the smelliest farts at the after hours 2 dollar taco buffet that is the SDMB these days. It’s about **all** the lame, smarmy-ass games to pile-on posters we don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/110 "2010-02-03T03:53:41Z")
**Zeriel** , you sent me to my dictionary for _orthogonal_. It’s been half a century since my last geometry class and spatial relationships are a problem for me anyway. Could you explain either that word or explain the concept in other words? This is a general reminder that the words “hostile, simplistic, and tolerant” were used only in this example: I believe that he [Der Trihs] thinks of himself as a liberal, but his comments are too hostile, intolerant, and simplistic regarding such things as Freedom of Religion. There are other examples. In this sentence I am describing why I find that _one person_ is unable to convince me that he is a liberal. It is my opinion that in general, liberals are supportive of the concept of Freedom of Religion. They aren’t as likely to see a cut and dried simple divide between science and faith where you must choose between one or the other. Unlike **Der Trihs** , most liberals do not want to slaughter all Christians. At that time I did not address whether this would make him a conservative. **Nor did I attribute hotility, intolerance, and simplistic thinking to conservatives.** If you have a question about what I mean by something I’ve said, I will be happy to answer for myself. Question for the evening: > [@](#): > > **Gyrate** : “combsuckers?” This was originally a reference to Paul Wolfowitz, Ass’t Secretary of Defense for George W. Bush. In the movie **9 11** , he was briefly shown wetting his comb in his mouth right before combing his hair. It was an _Eeewwww_ moment for a sellout theater crowd. I began calling all Neo-cons “combsuckers.” The song has ended but the malady lingers on. Wolfie was special. Would you care to be included on my list? I haven’t found anyone to blame for 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/111 "2010-02-03T04:20:40Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Zeriel** , you sent me to my dictionary for _orthogonal_. It’s been half a century since my last geometry class and spatial relationships are a problem for me anyway. Could you explain either that word or explain the concept in other words? Technically speaking, “orthogonal” is what two lines that form a right angle are. Colloquially, at least in the real-life spaces I tend to debate, it is used to mean “technically related but independent of each other”. If you imagine a mercator projection map, for example, the latitude and longitude lines can be said to be orthogonal. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/112 "2010-02-03T04:49:40Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Unlike **Der Trihs** , most liberals do not want to slaughter all Christians. That’s slander; I’ve said no such thing. Do I want to see Christianity destroyed ( along with every other religion )? Yes. But you don’t need to kill people to destroy a belief system. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/113 "2010-02-03T05:12:14Z")
What turns the discussions ugly are the insults and name calling. Sorry, but name calling and insults are used far more by righties. I suppose that is the Fox news and Rush and Beck contribution. Maybe we can blame Luntz for turning everything into a word game where insults and and slurs are seen as effective and useful ways to derail real discussions. You win by giving a horrible name to some action. Health care reform is not a commie plot. It just isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/114 "2010-02-03T05:48:09Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > … Der Trihs is just currently one of the smelliest farts at the after hours 2 dollar taco buffet that is the SDMB these days. … Planing on sharing that list with the rest of the class? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/115 "2010-02-03T06:13:52Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Planing on sharing that list with the rest of the class? > > CMC fnord! To paraphrase a wise man, I am not going to start throwing out names just to let everyone wrangle over whether they should or should not be included in my list. I have referred to Der Trihs by name only because he was already the named subject of several posts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/116 "2010-02-03T06:40:29Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > To paraphrase a wise man, I am not going to start throwing out names just to let everyone wrangle over whether they should or should not be included in my list. I have referred to Der Trihs by name only because he was already the named subject of several posts. Do you think of him more as a “Moriarty”, or an “Anti-Christ”? If he left the SDMB, who would you guys pick to be the _new_ Mortal Enemy of All That is Righteous and Good? Is there a Top Ten list, or would you pick a name out of the hat? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/117 "2010-02-03T08:46:41Z")
Congratulations Der, it seems that you’ve taken on the mantle of SDMB punching bag, previously held by such luminaries as TheRyan, Liberal and December. Don’t worry, this too shall pass. Sheesh, and the guy (mostly) doesn’t even participate in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/118 "2010-02-03T12:28:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you think of him more as a “Moriarty”, or an “Anti-Christ”? If he left the SDMB, who would you guys pick to be the _new_ Mortal Enemy of All That is Righteous and Good? Is there a Top Ten list, or would you pick a name out of the hat? > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Congratulations Der, it seems that you’ve taken on the mantle of SDMB punching bag, previously held by such luminaries as TheRyan, Liberal and December. Don’t worry, this too shall pass. > > Sheesh, and the guy (mostly) doesn’t even participate in the Pit. [To repeat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12070220&postcount=109) ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/119 "2010-02-03T13:14:49Z")
> [@CircleofWillis](#): > > To paraphrase a wise man, I am not going to start throwing out names just to let everyone wrangle over whether they should or should not be included in my list. I have referred to Der Trihs by name only because he was already the named subject of several posts. Put up or shut up. This whole cloak of secrecy thing is BS. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571/120 "2010-02-03T13:21:29Z")
**Mods** This has [predictably] become more of a bickering session, although it started well. If I had my druthers, I’d like the thread closed now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-left-right-bias-in-dealing-with-hyperbolic-posters/526571.md?page=7)