# Is there a list of allowable rhetorical devices? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 9, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551 "2019-10-09T21:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/21 "2019-10-10T11:51:37Z")
I’m not quite sure I understand your position, ElvisLives. Are you saying that epiplexis in general should be an acceptable rhetorical device, that certain instances of it are acceptable, or that the statement in question doesn’t really qualify as such in the first place? “Have you always been this naive and uninformed?” I think most people would agree that is unacceptable, so accepting epiplexis in general is pretty much eliminated as a viable choice. If one feels that “certain instances” of it are acceptable, the problem becomes in defining where the line is between what is and what is not acceptable. I think that would be a never ending bone of contention, to be honest. In the case of the latter possibility, some clarification on your part would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/22 "2019-10-10T12:49:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Rhetoric is not snark. A true statement. Of no relevance but true. Rhetoric can be used to communicate profound truths … or snark … or even hate speech. You don’t think the mod comment was for use of rhetoric, do you? The intention of that specific use of rhetoric was to insult and it was used by a poster with ( we now know) six warnings already for insults. The mod in question has been cracking down on insults in that forum by ALL political stripes. Posters have been suspended and even banned. A heads up advisement that phrasing an insult in the form of a question will still be seen as an insult to someone who has enough warnings that a ban or suspension at least might be required for another warning seems nice to me. If your issue is that you think the insult is in context mild enough to not deserve moderation then in isolation I’d agree. But in context of multiple past warnings for personal insults? Well given. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/23 "2019-10-10T12:58:47Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You don’t think the mod comment was for use of rhetoric, do you? By their own words, yes, apparently it is. It wasn’t for “this instance” of it, it was for “this type” ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/24 "2019-10-10T13:20:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the moderators won’t do anything about it, so there’s no point. Thus the “years of protests” comment. Hmm. Well if you have a case to make that a poster is “threadshitting” or has a pattern of doing so, and you don’t have confidence in the moderators unless the complaint is made public, what about making an ATMB thread that lays out your case? Or even better, what about an ATMB thread that lays out your case that the moderators are derelict in their duties? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/25 "2019-10-10T13:26:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > For years, women protested against the misogynistic comments that far too many men casually posted without consequences. Then the women figuratively stood up, took center stage, and yelled loudly. Surprise, surprise, the mods did a total turnaround and began, shock, moderating those comments. The Usual Suspects, and yes, they were indeed those and everybody knew their names, whined bitterly and were told to stuff it. Some were banned, some left, some got careful, and the board got a bit better, though not perfect. I’ve read members mention this event a couple times now. What do you mean when you say “the women figuratively… yelled loudly”? Did they start calling out posters in debate and election threads? Did they make ATMB threads? Did they email **TubaDiva** and threaten to cancel their subscriptions? If I think that the moderators aren’t doing their (volunteer) jobs, what should I do? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > We all know who the other set of Usual Suspects are. I’ve reported posts and received no reaction from the mods. Others have as well. Not only do the mods not take action against them, they protect them and call out those who oppose aloud. This is behavior extremely similar to what the women of the Dope long despaired about. > > If you’re new enough not to understand the coded language I’m using, then this post may be gibberish. Code is all that is allowed in ATMB. I’m betting that the mods can decipher me. You there, in the mod loop, can you hear me now? No, I don’t understand your coded language. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/26 "2019-10-10T13:32:56Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > But as long as you’re a Trump supporter, you’re allowed to say “Nuke Mecca!” and not get so much as a warning. Nope, no double standard here! I can’t comment on that post, since it’s not my forum, but did you report it? If you saw it wasn’t moderated, and were so concerned, why didn’t you PM the forum moderators? And that post was made before the poster indicated he was a Trump supporter. In any case, the poster in question is now banned. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/27 "2019-10-10T13:34:37Z")
I think the warning was perfectly clear. If you use this rhetorical tactic (epiplexis) _to insult another poster_ it will get a warning. So you can use it just fine, except not to, you know, be a jerk. Hyperbole is apparently also fine, unless there are in fact waves of Trump supporters asking for the thermonuclear destruction of Umm-Al-Qura, and I merely missed them. Hell, I missed the waves of Trump supporters whose opinions on nukes are as yet unstated as well. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/28 "2019-10-10T14:08:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > By their own words, yes, apparently it is. It wasn’t for “this instance” of it, it was for “this type” That’s an absurd interpretation. “This type” refers to the device being used as a kind of insult, not the device itself. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/29 "2019-10-10T14:11:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Bone** can confirm, but I don’t see anything wrong with erotesis, hypophora, or ratiocinatio. I thought this was an English only board? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/30 "2019-10-10T14:52:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I can’t comment on that post, since it’s not my forum, but did you report it? If you saw it wasn’t moderated, and were so concerned, why didn’t you PM the forum moderators? And that post was made before the poster indicated he was a Trump supporter. > > In any case, the poster in question is now banned. 😕 I thought the purpose of reporting offensive posts was to call the moderators’ attention to them. In this case, I first became aware of the post because the Mod himself quoted it, noting in passing that others had already reported it, and declining to sanction the poster in any way whatsoever. In that situation, what purpose would have been served by my reporting the post? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/31 "2019-10-10T15:26:50Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I thought this was an English only board? 😉 My DNA profile lists me as only 65% English. I guess I need to watch myself. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/32 "2019-10-10T15:31:40Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > 😕 > I thought the purpose of reporting offensive posts was to call the moderators’ attention to them. No, that’s not the purpose. If it was then the “report” button would launch a report without being able to add a comment. As it is, not only are you reporting the post but you are also able to explain **why** you are reporting the post. And because of that, you can plead your case as to why the post was objectionable. You may have noticed or thought of something a mod might not pick up on. So no, it’s not just to draw attention. Reporting a post that a mod has already read may still be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/33 "2019-10-10T17:08:26Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > 😕 > I thought the purpose of reporting offensive posts was to call the moderators’ attention to them. Yes it is. That’s why that should be the first recourse when you find a post offensive. > [@](#): > > In this case, I first became aware of the post because the Mod himself quoted it, noting in passing that others had already reported it, and declining to sanction the poster in any way whatsoever. **tomndebb** quoted and moderated a different post by a different poster, not the “Nuke Mecca” one. It was an ethnic joke about Saudis, and as far as I can see it deserved the note it received (which indeed is a form of sanction). No other GD mod posted in the thread. Checking reports, as far as I can see nobody reported the “Nuke Mecca” post between the time it was made, on 20 September, and the time the thread was last active, on 22 September. I haven’t checked every report since then so it could possibly have been reported subsequently. > [@](#): > > In that situation, what purpose would have been served by my reporting the post? Since no one else reported it, it would have drawn the attention of the mods. I’ll say for the billionth time (using the rhetorical device known as _hyperbole_;)) that just because a post hasn’t been moderated doesn’t mean it’s allowed. We’re volunteers. We aren’t on 24/7, and we don’t (can’t) read every post. Sometimes real life intrudes, and several mods have been on travel recently. And even if a post is reported, the report can be missed, because we receive a lot of reports. So if a post hasn’t been moderated that you think should have been, go ahead and report it. And if it isn’t moderated, you’re welcome to PM a forum mod to ask about their reasoning (after allowing a reasonable time for response). As it is, you have made an entirely baseless accusation that the post, which you never reported (and apparently no one else did), was not moderated because it was by a Trump supporter, a fact that only became evident two weeks after the post was made. I do think you owe the staff an apology. And I would also suggest that before you make a complaint, you read the thread and posts you’re complaining about more carefully. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/34 "2019-10-10T17:15:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That’s an absurd interpretation. “This type” refers to the device being used as a kind of insult, not the device itself. Either that device is always going to be an insult (when directed at another poster), or it’s never going to be - it’s explicitly asking a question to rebuke, so it’s \*always \*going to be the “type” \*\*Bone \*\*has “had enough of”. Or else perhaps we can get a list of the “types” of epiplexis that are acceptable, and the ones that aren’t? **He asked, already knowing the answer.** ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/35 "2019-10-10T17:41:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll say for the billionth time (using the rhetorical device known as hyperbole) that just because a post hasn’t been moderated doesn’t mean it’s allowed. We’re volunteers. We aren’t on 24/7, and we don’t (can’t) read every post. Sometimes real life intrudes, and several mods have been on travel recently. And even if a post is reported, the report can be missed, because we receive a lot of reports. So if a post hasn’t been moderated that you think should have been, go ahead and report it. And if it isn’t moderated, you’re welcome to PM a forum mod to ask about their reasoning (after allowing a reasonable time for response). Exactly. Many people feel that it is government’s responsibility to make us behave instead of OUR responsibility as citizens. The SDMB is a microcosm of that attitude. If we all make a more sincere effort to control our verbal impulses and “play well with others”, it would go a long way. Believe me, I can have quite a month on me, but I have made an effort to curtail that, and it has definitely helped my demeanor. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/36 "2019-10-10T19:23:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “You don’t care about finding facts” is a moddable personal insult now, on a par with “you’re stupid” and “you’re a liar”? Fuck that noise. If we were to compare “you don’t care about finding facts” with “you’re stupid”, then certainly the latter is more severe. But the former is still moddable as it is personalization and not argument. > [@MrDibble](#): > > By their own words, yes, apparently it is. It wasn’t for “this instance” of it, it was for “this type” To clarify, my instruction was to prohibit the tactic as a way of insulting other posters. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > But as long as you’re a Trump supporter, you’re allowed to say “Nuke Mecca!” and not get so much as a warning. Nope, no double standard here! There’s a few factors at play here: [ul] [li]I indicated in the thread that I made the post in, but I will reiterate here. Comments about moderation belong in ATMB. Do not continue to make snide remarks about moderation within the threads in the various forums.[/li][li]As I indicated in the post you took exception to, I missed the initial thread report. It was reported on a Friday afternoon, and looking at my calendar I was out of the office that afternoon. I did look at reports and was on the boards that weekend, however clearly I missed it. That was a mistake on my part. If I had seen it initially, I would have moderated it at that time.[/li][li]In addition, our email alerts for post reports has been wonky for about the past year. As a result, we often get post reports delayed, sometimes up to more than a day. Sometimes they come out of order, etc. I searched my email alerts and this one was not ever sent. I typically manually go through all the thread reports when I am on the board, but I do so less from my phone which I tend to read from on the weekends.[/li][li]We tend to avoid issuing warnings for stale posts, and that practice holds here.[/li][li]We also tend to avoid issuing warnings for brand new posters. They may be unfamiliar with the rules, so typically I recommend to them they read the rules, etc.[/li][li]We were already in discussion about that particular poster and I didn’t see the need to issue warnings if they were ultimately going to be banned anyways, which they now have. [I quoted it in the note](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21908077&postcount=2336) because I wanted to highlight that that type of comment wasn’t acceptable.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/37 "2019-10-10T19:34:58Z")
When epiplexis is outlawed, only outlaws will have epiplexis! Ask you doctor if epiplexis is right for you. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/38 "2019-10-10T19:35:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes it is. That’s why that should be the first recourse when you find a post offensive. > > **tomndebb** quoted and moderated a different post by a different poster, not the “Nuke Mecca” one. It was an ethnic joke about Saudis, and as far as I can see it deserved the note it received (which indeed is a form of sanction). No other GD mod posted in the thread. > > Checking reports, as far as I can see nobody reported the “Nuke Mecca” post between the time it was made, on 20 September, and the time the thread was last active, on 22 September. I haven’t checked every report since then so it could possibly have been reported subsequently. > Since no one else reported it, it would have drawn the attention of the mods. > > I’ll say for the billionth time (using the rhetorical device known as _hyperbole_;)) that just because a post hasn’t been moderated doesn’t mean it’s allowed. We’re volunteers. We aren’t on 24/7, and we don’t (can’t) read every post. Sometimes real life intrudes, and several mods have been on travel recently. And even if a post is reported, the report can be missed, because we receive a lot of reports. So if a post hasn’t been moderated that you think should have been, go ahead and report it. And if it isn’t moderated, you’re welcome to PM a forum mod to ask about their reasoning (after allowing a reasonable time for response). > > As it is, you have made an entirely baseless accusation that the post, which you never reported (and apparently no one else did), was not moderated because it was by a Trump supporter, a fact that only became evident two weeks after the post was made. I do think you owe the staff an apology. And I would also suggest that before you make a complaint, you read the thread and posts you’re complaining about more carefully. We are talking past each other. I was referring to this post by Bone, not any post by tomndebb. > [@The Trump Impeachment Inquiry](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-impeachment-inquiry/840771/2337): > > Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. > > I recommend you familiarize yourself with the rules of the board and each forum you post in. This post was made and unfortunately I missed the thread report at the time or else I would have offered you the same advice. > I recommend toning down your rhetoric in order to participate civilly in these forums. > > [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/39 "2019-10-10T19:41:14Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If we were to compare “you don’t care about finding facts” with “you’re stupid”, then certainly the latter is more severe. But the former is still moddable as it is personalization and not argument. > > To clarify, my instruction was to prohibit the tactic as a way of insulting other posters. > There’s a few factors at play here: > [ul] > [li]I indicated in the thread that I made the post in, but I will reiterate here. Comments about moderation belong in ATMB. Do not continue to make snide remarks about moderation within the threads in the various forums.[/li][li]As I indicated in the post you took exception to, I missed the initial thread report. It was reported on a Friday afternoon, and looking at my calendar I was out of the office that afternoon. I did look at reports and was on the boards that weekend, however clearly I missed it. That was a mistake on my part. If I had seen it initially, I would have moderated it at that time.[/li][li]In addition, our email alerts for post reports has been wonky for about the past year. As a result, we often get post reports delayed, sometimes up to more than a day. Sometimes they come out of order, etc. I searched my email alerts and this one was not ever sent. I typically manually go through all the thread reports when I am on the board, but I do so less from my phone which I tend to read from on the weekends.[/li][li]We tend to avoid issuing warnings for stale posts, and that practice holds here.[/li][li]We also tend to avoid issuing warnings for brand new posters. They may be unfamiliar with the rules, so typically I recommend to them they read the rules, etc.[/li][li]We were already in discussion about that particular poster and I didn’t see the need to issue warnings if they were ultimately going to be banned anyways, which they now have. [I quoted it in the note](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21908077&postcount=2336) because I wanted to highlight that that type of comment wasn’t acceptable.[/li][/ul] Thank you for your explanation, in particular the last paragraph. That makes the decision sound much more reasonable than it appeared at the time. Thank you also for volunteering your time to help the board run smoothly. I apologize for the snark and for inappropriately addressing the moderation within the thread itself. In the end, the right decision was made, and it’s not a big deal that it was made a few hours after I thought it should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551/40 "2019-10-10T20:01:33Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > When epiplexis is outlawed, only outlaws will have epiplexis! > > Ask you doctor if epiplexis is right for you. Unfortunately I am allergic to the ingredients in epiplexis, and it is also processed in a facility with irony and snark. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-allowable-rhetorical-devices/841551.md?page=1)