# Is there a list of countries I can become citizens of? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814 "2013-12-08T13:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/21 "2013-12-08T20:14:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is there a general rule that you can become a citizen of a country by marrying somebody who’s already a citizen? Or is that just an American policy? You do _not_ get to be a U.S. citizen just by marrying one. (I know. I did it.) You get to be a legal Permanent Resident. That gives you most of the same rights (and duties) as an American citizen, the main exceptions being the right to vote and (I think) being subject to the military draft. (I think you are ineligible for certain government jobs, and certainly for elected positions, and can lose you Permant Resident status reletively easily if you commit a felony.) After you have had that status fo ra few years you become eligible to _apply_ for citizenship (but not everybody does - I didn’t) after which you still have to jump through several hoops, show god character, take the test, etc., to actually become a citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/22 "2013-12-08T20:24:57Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Also, I have been told repeatedly by immigrants to the US that Green Card holders can enter Canada as a tourist visa-free like US Citizens can. Foreigners with H1B and other non-permanent-resident visas may still need a Canadian visa that Americans wouldn’t need. While the US/Canada border has more restrictions than Eurozone borders, it’s still relatively porous and it’s possible for Americans to get up on Friday morning in New York and decide to go to Montreal for the weekend and actually go. Indeed. In fact, I did just that back when I was just a green card holder. While visiting New York / Vermont (from California) I decided to go check out Montreal while my wife was busy with college stuff. My green card was enough to get into Canada (and back again!). Honestly the border crossing in both directions didn’t seem more onerous than getting carded at the liquor store. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/23 "2013-12-08T20:30:22Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > show god character, take the test, etc., to actually become a citizen. I’ll just assume you meant “good character”… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/24 "2013-12-08T20:31:14Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You do _not_ get to be a U.S. citizen just by marrying one. (I know. I did it.) You get to be a legal Permanent Resident. That gives you most of the same rights (and duties) as an American citizen, the main exceptions being the right to vote and (I think) being subject to the military draft. (I think you are ineligible for certain government jobs, and certainly for elected positions, and can lose you Permant Resident status reletively easily if you commit a felony.) After you have had that status fo ra few years you become eligible to _apply_ for citizenship (but not everybody does - I didn’t) after which you still have to jump through several hoops, show god character, take the test, etc., to actually become a citizen. I think there’s just a semantic difference between what we’re saying. I realize a foreign citizen doesn’t become an American citizen automatically on their wedding day. But marriage does open a pathway to citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/25 "2013-12-08T21:11:04Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > Indeed. In fact, I did just that back when I was just a green card holder. While visiting New York / Vermont (from California) I decided to go check out Montreal while my wife was busy with college stuff. My green card was enough to get into Canada (and back again!). Honestly the border crossing in both directions didn’t seem more onerous than getting carded at the liquor store. Green card keeps you from having to get a visa. You will still need your passport. Since 9-11, you need a passport to enter Canada via air, and by land a passport, [passport card](http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html), or [NEXUS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEXUS_%28frequent_traveler_program%29) (I realize these don’t all apply to permanent residents). ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/26 "2013-12-08T21:35:23Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Green card keeps you from having to get a visa. You will still need your passport. Since 9-11, you need a passport to enter Canada via air, and by land a passport, [passport card](http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html), or [NEXUS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEXUS_%28frequent_traveler_program%29) (I realize these don’t all apply to permanent residents). You’re right. I handed over my SA passport too. As you said, without the green card I would have needed an already approved visa. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/27 "2013-12-08T23:04:44Z")
It is relatively easy to become a Canadian citizen, but first you have to become a “landed immigrant”, which is based largely on a point system. Then after, I think, 4 years, you can apply. It can take 18 months for the bureaucracy to grind after that. And you keep any other citizenship you hold. You also have to take an exam on Canadian history, government, etc., unless you are over 55. I happen to know someone who became a Swiss citizen. It is expensive and arduous. He had grown up in Geneva and became a citizen there so there was no language problem but if you live in a German speaking Canton you have to be fluent in Swiss German. I might mention that you actually have to be accepted by a community, that being to arduous part. Then the canton and the federal government rubber stamp it. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/28 "2013-12-09T00:43:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is there a general rule that you can become a citizen of a country by marrying somebody who’s already a citizen? Or is that just an American policy? I’m not an expert on world nationality law or anything, but I’ve never seen a modern country(there are antiquated laws that generally only covered foreign wives getting instant citizenship in the husband’s country) where marrying a citizen granted you any right to citizenship. Generally what it does grant you a right to is to apply for permanent residency, and assuming you fulfill the requirements and are granted it you then can apply for citizenship once a certain number of years have been spent in the country and you meet the requirements and are granted it. It is basically a two separate step process: 1.Permanent residency(which allows you to rack up the time in country to qualify for citizenship). 2.Citizenship. Nearly every nation has immigration law that has a path for family unification, with spouses and minor children being given preference. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/29 "2013-12-09T01:03:36Z")
Well North Korea is one you can’t become a citizen of. They’re not interested in defectors any more, even ones from South Korea: > **[North Korea Returns South Korean 'Defectors'](https://www.voanews.com/a/north-korea-returns-south-korean-defectors/1776755.html)** > > Political analysts say gesture may be Pyongyang's attempt to thaw cold relations after it abruptly canceled reunions of families separated since Korean War They seem to have granted some passports to foreigners that did diplomatic work for them, but there is no ordinary path to gaining citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/30 "2013-12-09T01:56:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is there a general rule that you can become a citizen of a country by marrying somebody who’s already a citizen? Or is that just an American policy? > [@Duckster](#): > > It’s not American policy. You still have to jump through a number of hoops in your own right: > > [I am Married to a U.S. Citizen | USCIS](http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization/naturalization-spouses-us-citizens) I certainly have not become a Thai citizen despite being married to a Thai. And the wife is in no way considered an American citizen by the US government. She still has to renew her US visa every 10 years. If she wanted to become an American, which she doesn’t, there would be a process to go through. I don’t know of any countries, at least over in this part of the world, that grants you citizenship just for marrying a citizen. [quote=“coremelt, post:29, topic:675814”] Well North Korea is one you can’t become a citizen of. They’re not interested in defectors any more, even ones from South Korea: > **[North Korea Returns South Korean 'Defectors'](https://www.voanews.com/a/north-korea-returns-south-korean-defectors/1776755.html)** > > Political analysts say gesture may be Pyongyang's attempt to thaw cold relations after it abruptly canceled reunions of families separated since Korean War Ah, shucks! There goes my backup plan! ☹ As for buying citizenship, ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has racked up citizenships, at least honorary ones, in the Bahamas, Nicaragua and several other countries in South America, Africa and Eastern Europe, largely by paying for them. Superficially, these have been granted for his services as an “economic adviser,” as he emains influential enough to throw a lot of Thai business their way. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/31 "2013-12-09T02:14:14Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Turning Japanese, on the other hand . . . Is relatively easy. (The key word being “relatively.”) > **[Japanese nationality law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nationality_law)** > > Japanese Nationality Law details the conditions by which a person holds nationality of Japan. The primary law governing nationality regulations is the 1950 Nationality Act. > Children born to at least one Japanese parent are generally automatically nationals at birth. Birth in Japan does not by itself entitle a child to Japanese nationality, except when a child would otherwise be stateless. Foreign nationals may acquire citizenship by naturalization after living in the country for at least five... > **[Questions](https://www.turning-japanese.info/p/questions.html)** > > The most commonly asked question about Japanese naturalization, answered with blog posts. > **[Many angles to acquiring Japanese citizenship](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/12/27/reference/many-angles-to-acquiring-japanese-citizenship/)** > > Nationality has long been a controversial issue in Japan. For most, it is something they are born with; for others, it is something they had to fight for. For some, nationality may be a source of pride, while for others, it may be the cause of... > **[I want to become a Japanese national. | Tokyoimmigration service](https://www.tokyoimmigration.jp/?p=178)** > > Call Now +81-3-5913-9750/+81-70-3100-1670 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/32 "2013-12-09T03:18:40Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > She still has to renew her US visa every 10 years. I hope it isn’t prying but is that a tourist visa? My wife didn’t want to go through permanent residency yet and inquired about getting a tourist visa from the USA embassy. Thankfully I guess since we didn’t waste the money the woman on the phone told her straight out since she was married to a USA citizen there was no hope for a tourist visa, they would just assume immigrant intent. Looking online on immigration forums it appears you can occasionally get a tourist visa as a USA citizen spouse depending on a lot of things, but often you’re just wasting the application fee. And apparently if you mention being married to a USA citizen when entering the USA on the visa they can decide to deny entry.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/33 "2013-12-09T03:22:35Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Turning Japanese, on the other hand . . . > [@jovan](#): > > Is relatively easy. (The key word being “relatively.”) You really think so? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/34 "2013-12-09T04:51:38Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > You really think so? Yes. I’m a permanent resident myself and immigration and naturalization to Japan are far easier and straightforward than stereotypes will lead you to believe. As far as naturalization is concerned the single biggest hurdle, the one that keeps me from applying, is that Japan does not allow double citizenship for adults. However, Japan is hardly unique in this regard, which is why I stressed relatively. Note that according to one of the articles I linked to 99% of naturalization requests are approved. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/35 "2013-12-09T05:30:44Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Yes. I’m a permanent resident myself … You missed the joke: https://www.youtube.com/embed/gEmJ-VWPDM4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/36 "2013-12-09T05:34:26Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > You missed the joke: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEmJ-VWPDM4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEmJ-VWPDM4) Dammit, I caught **njtt** ’s reference, but for some reason missed the second. Anyway, the info’s relevant to the OP, so I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/37 "2013-12-09T10:01:12Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Australia and Nz you can become a citizen of relatively easily, through points system immigration or a number of other ways. Belize you can buy citizenship in. And the least restrictive way to get Aus ‘points’ is to have a lot of money. It’s not quite like buying citizenship, you only have to buy a local business and then establish local resdence, but the visa fee is likely to be a high 4 figure amount. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/38 "2013-12-09T11:07:15Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And the least restrictive way to get Aus ‘points’ is to have a lot of money. It’s not quite like buying citizenship, you only have to buy a local business and then establish local resdence This only gets you residence, not citizenship. You still have to live in Australia for enough years and then apply for citizenship. And most countries have Investment visas, if you can employ enough locals you get residence. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/39 "2013-12-09T15:23:12Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Not sure you could become a Saudi citizen. Maybe if you flogged a woman driver in front of three witnesses, dunno. **Moderator Note** **Siam Sam** , whether this is intended as a political or religious jab, it’s not appropriate for General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814/40 "2013-12-09T17:19:09Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I hope it isn’t prying but is that a tourist visa? My wife didn’t want to go through permanent residency yet and inquired about getting a tourist visa from the USA embassy. Thankfully I guess since we didn’t waste the money the woman on the phone told her straight out since she was married to a USA citizen there was no hope for a tourist visa, they would just assume immigrant intent. > > Looking online on immigration forums it appears you can occasionally get a tourist visa as a USA citizen spouse depending on a lot of things, but often you’re just wasting the application fee. And apparently if you mention being married to a USA citizen when entering the USA on the visa they can decide to deny entry.:smack: It is a tourist visa. Was never much of a problem for us at the Bangkok embassy. I don’t know how much it matters, but she has civil-servant status and is a fairly senior level, plus she received one of her master’s degrees in the US (we met at the U of Hawaii) and so already lived in the US without abusing her visa. Plus she owns a fair amount of property, at least on paper, as much of it really belongs to “the family” rather than her; since some_one_ has to own a property, her family just divvies up who owns what, but it’s considered everyone’s, a typical practice here. But the point is she had a lot of stuff to show she was tied to Thailand and intended to return. That seems to matter a lot. The very first time we applied for a visa for her after getting married was the only hiccup. They would give her only one year, but it’s been 10 years each time after that. We’ve almost always entered the country together and never a problem with Immigration. In fact, entering New York City via JFK Airport last year, they even let her get into the “US Citizens” line with me. But even when we are in separate lines, she always points me out, and I wave to the Immigration officer. The one time she went to the US without me was in 1996, to attend a summer workshop at the U of Michigan, but that was on her official Thai-government passport, and I’m not sure they would have been aware of me (especially since that was pre-9/11). But my best friend in Thailand will be down this week with his Thai wife to renew her US visa. She routinely gets 10 years too, and she’s not a government official. They met when she was his secretary and now is a housewife. > [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > **Siam Sam** , whether this is intended as a political or religious jab, it’s not appropriate for General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator My bad. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-list-of-countries-i-can-become-citizens-of/675814.md?page=3)