# Is there a meaningful difference between "white supremacist" and "Christian nationalist"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2023, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227 "2023-05-18T13:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/41 "2023-05-19T10:58:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Yes, because they accept that racism is bad, which is pretty good starting point to have them at. No, they know that racism is a bad word, but with no idea what it actually means. You can’t teach them what the bad thing actually is without pointing out to them that they’re doing a bad thing, because what they’re doing actually is, in truth, bad. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I haven’t heard things like this in decades. No doubt there are some that feel this way but I seriously doubt they are significant in numbers. The media would have you believe this is an accepted way of thinking for most Christians. It’s not a Christian thing; it’s a racist thing. And their numbers are significant enough to win national elections. > [@Velocity](#): > > I used to be a teacher - albeit, for only a couple of AmeriCorps summer terms. The best **and** worst students at the school were black. The difference was that the high-achieving black students had immigrated directly from Africa, whereas the low-achieving black students were born in America. Same race, just different culture. Which is a sign that the culture that’s a problem isn’t “black culture”. The actual culture problem is Southern culture. African-Americans had their own culture systematically destroyed, and lived in a place where civilized authority really was hostile to them: It’s no wonder that they ended up with that culture. What’s white southerners’ excuse? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/42 "2023-05-19T11:02:59Z")
“Christian Nationalist” is more palatable from a PR perspective? I went and looked up Christian Nationalism. Wikipedia defines it as “a type of religious nationalism that is affiliated with Christianity and which primarily focuses on the internal politics of society, such as legislating and laws that reflect their view of Christianity and the role of religion in political and social life.” Which on the surface would seem to simply describe Christians who actively seek to elect politicians and legislate laws consistent with their values. In reality, I feel this is problematic for several reasons, not the least of which is our country was specifically designed to have a separation of church and state. Religions and people who follow them often operate from a position of privilege and exceptionalism and intolerance. And these don’t seem like particularly tolerant or accepting people. God has chosen them, after all, and who are you to go against the word of God? So to me it doesn’t seem that far of a trip from “we want a nation built on the Christian values of our forefathers” to “we want a nation built on the Christian values of our WHITE forefathers”. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/43 "2023-05-19T12:10:53Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Are we making a distinction between Christian nationalists and Christian fundamentalists? I’d say “Yes”. Fundamentalists have always existed, but their beliefs tend to be more for themselves. Sure, they think you _should_ agree with them, but historically, they were (mostly) happy just thinking you’d go to Hell if you didn’t. The Nationalists, though, are all about _compelling_ your adherence to their beliefs. They want to use the power of the State to enforce their rules. And even if their beliefs aren’t “Fundamentalist”, enforcement of _any_ religious beliefs is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/44 "2023-05-19T13:59:43Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I haven’t heard things like this in decades. And then in the very next post… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/45 "2023-05-19T21:54:43Z")
I want to say that the existence of _black_ Christian nationalists show that there isn’t full overlap between these groups. But thinking about it, a lot of these people will repeat white supremacist talking points despite their own ethnicity. e.g. They likely won’t acknowledge how bad chattel slavery was. So I really don’t think there’s much difference IME. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/46 "2023-05-22T08:53:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There must be a substantial number of white supremacists who don’t care for Christianity. There’s the pagan crowd (like the [Asatru](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asatru_Folk_Assembly)), but I don’t think they constitute a “substantial” number. > [@Velocity](#): > > And there are a significant number of Christian nationalists who aren’t white or pro-white-supremacy. Indeed, some of the most fervent people I know in the latter category are Hispanic Not mutually-exclusive categories. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/47 "2023-05-23T03:29:03Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@suranyi](#): > > > > Are we making a distinction between Christian nationalists and Christian fundamentalists? > > I’d say “Yes”. Fundamentalists have always existed, but their beliefs tend to be more for themselves. Sure, they think you _should_ agree with them, but historically, they were (mostly) happy just thinking you’d go to Hell if you didn’t. > > The Nationalists, though, are all about _compelling_ your adherence to their beliefs. They want to use the power of the State to enforce their rules. And even if their beliefs aren’t “Fundamentalist”, enforcement of _any_ religious beliefs is a problem. Well said in my opinion. I grew up in the 1960s-1980s in a Fundamentalist Christian world. As much as I have issues with that culture it was not about forcing others to live a certain way, for the most part at least. The Nationalist/Dominionist types are all about authoritarianism and **forcing** people to bend to their will and their interpretation of the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/48 "2023-07-01T06:16:44Z")
Asatruar are not the racist kind of Nordic Neo-Pagans, who are usually referred to as Odinists. I’ve known one Black and several Jewish Asatruar; they take grave offense at the stereotype that all Nordic Pagans are racist (as do the White, non-Jewish ones I’m personally acquainted with). Odinists, not so much, from what I know of them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/49 "2023-07-01T08:16:01Z")
> [@El\_DeLuxo](#): > > Asatruar are not the racist kind of Nordic Neo-Pagans Take it up with the [“new” AFA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asatru_Folk_Assembly), the [AA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81satr%C3%BA_Alliance), or any of its member kindreds, not me. _They_ call themselves that, not Odinists. Mostly, AIUI, because they don’t consider themselves monotheists, which is what Odinism implies. > [@El\_DeLuxo](#): > > the stereotype that all Nordic Pagans are racist I can see how it looks like I was saying that, and I apologize for giving that impression, but I was speaking specifically about the AFA, which is why I linked to them and not the general [Heathenry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_in_the_United_States) article. ---
**Author:** ![JakeRS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@JakeRS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JakeRS)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/50 "2023-07-02T18:49:31Z")
Are extremist groups of muslim Bosniaks, muslim Albanians, muslim Chechnyans, muslim Turks,etc. also white supremacists by this theophobic logic? There’s no such thing as a “Christian nationality”. There’s no such thing as all white extremists or supremacists being christians. There’s even no such thing as “Christianity” on it’s own, that is just an umbrella term, there is Catholicism, various Orthodox churches, dozens of various Protestant churches,etc. A Serbian orthodox person and a Polish catholic person are technically both christians, but they have little in common, even the most important holidays like Christmas and Easter aren’t on the same day, so how would this woke-scarecrow dystopia of white christianity even function, when there’s dozens of various incompatible churches, whose members often hate each other despite being the same race? Please watch a little less CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/51 "2023-07-02T18:58:51Z")
A white supremacist is not necesarily a Christian. Folks that say whites are superior come in all flavors of ehtnicity, religions, and other backgrounds. A person claiming to be a Christian nationalist will claim Christianity as their religion, and say that religion has a say in shaping the law of the land. Not really the same thing, but a Venn diagram of the two groups would find some overlapping opinions. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/52 "2023-07-02T19:31:26Z")
> [@JakeRS](#): > > There’s even no such thing as “Christianity” on it’s own, that is just an umbrella term, there is Catholicism, various Orthodox churches, dozens of various Protestant churches,etc. A Serbian orthodox person and a Polish catholic person are technically both christians, but they have little in common, even the most important holidays like Christmas and Easter aren’t on the same day, so how would this woke-scarecrow dystopia of white christianity even function, when there’s dozens of various incompatible churches, whose members often hate each other despite being the same race? Excellent points. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/53 "2023-07-02T19:45:03Z")
> [@JakeRS](#): > > There’s no such thing as a “Christian nationality”. But there are Christian nationalists? Or is Margie Three Toes leading an empty parade? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/54 "2023-07-02T21:01:44Z")
There is a quote about the nature of Christianity by, of all people, Queen Elizabeth I. I rather like itl > **[A quote by Elizabeth I](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/671957-there-is-only-one-christ-jesus-one-faith-all-else)** > > There is only one Christ, Jesus, one faith. All else is a dispute over trifles. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/55 "2023-07-02T22:51:32Z")
Nevermind ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/56 "2023-07-03T16:08:25Z")
It must say something about the nature of Christianity if someone who killed as many people over “trifles” as Elizabeth I could say that with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/57 "2023-07-03T20:28:51Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > t must say something about the nature of Christianity if someone who killed as many people over “trifles” as Elizabeth I could say that with a straight face. AFAIK, and this is likely getting into hijack stuff, most of the Catholics that were executed were killed for attempting to assassinate her, or overthrow the government. Not just for being a catholic. True, you could not hold office, but that didnt kill you. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/58 "2023-07-03T21:06:35Z")
> [@JakeRS](#): > > There’s even no such thing as “Christianity” on it’s own, that is just an umbrella term, there is Catholicism, various Orthodox churches, dozens of various Protestant churches,etc. A Serbian orthodox person and a Polish catholic person are technically both christians, but they have little in common, even the most important holidays like Christmas and Easter aren’t on the same day, so how would this woke-scarecrow dystopia of white christianity even function, when there’s dozens of various incompatible churches, whose members often hate each other despite being the same race? If we subscribe to the idea that no two people are the same and that we each have our own views, opinions, and politics, then as you head towards extremists - people who are less reasonable about reducing the ideological restrictions on their followers in the aim of attracting a wider audience - then the more fractured that things are going to get, because every individualistic nuance is going to be blown up to 11. If they were willing to bend on whether spoons go on the right or the left of the plate, they wouldn’t be the sort of person willing to start an extremist group. But, likewise, arguing which side of the plate the spoon goes on is pretty irrelevant to the view of an outsider. To that extremist, sure, it’s the most important thing ever and that other rival group who has all the same beliefs except that one thing - the group who can most easily steal all of the same followers away, because it wouldn’t be a big shift - is the largest of all enemies and _clearly, completely different_. I don’t know that we need to pay attention to their trivialities. I’m sure that there’s some technical difference between Maoism and Stalinism. I’m not really fussed enough about it to play pretend with those guys that those differences are so massive that you can’t lump them together under the heading of “Communists”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/59 "2023-07-03T22:20:51Z")
> [@JakeRS](#): > > Are extremist groups of muslim Bosniaks, muslim Albanians, muslim Chechnyans, muslim Turks,etc. also white supremacists by this theophobic logic? Yes, if they espouse white supremacist views. This isn’t “theophobic logic” it’s using the correct definition of words. > [@JakeRS](#): > > There’s no such thing as a “Christian nationality”. Correct. However the term “Christian nationalist” does not mean “citizen of the Christian nation”. It means someone who wants government and/or the judiciary to be explicitly based around Christian principles. And it not only exists but is very popular in the US right now; I can link clips of Republicans saying that there should be no separation of church and state. Or simply, people using religious arguments for why the state should get involved in things like legal acceptance of trans. > [@JakeRS](#): > > There’s even no such thing as “Christianity” on it’s own, that is just an umbrella term, there is Catholicism, various Orthodox churches, dozens of various Protestant churches,etc. Correct again. It’s an umbrella term. What’s wrong with umbrella terms? Also, the umbrella term being used here is christian _nationalist_, not merely _Christian_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227/60 "2023-07-03T22:27:48Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It means someone who wants government and/or the judiciary to be explicitly based around Christian principles. To be more precise, it means someone who wants government and/or the judiciary to be explicitly based around Christian principles as interpreted by their particular sect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-meaningful-difference-between-white-supremacist-and-christian-nationalist/984227.md?page=4)