# Is there a moral justification for automobile radar detectors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 9, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503 "2009-04-09T14:08:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/41 "2009-04-09T22:16:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So to answer the question, it’s a gray area. It gives you a heads up to check the posted speed to avoid traps but it’s not a license to drive wrecklessly. Personally, I prefer to drive wrecklessly. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/42 "2009-04-09T22:29:37Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Personally, I prefer to drive wrecklessly. Me too, the less wrecks the better. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/43 "2009-04-10T00:47:45Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The better response would be to get the speed limit changed rather than surreptitiously breaking the law. I doubt many local municipalities are going to be very open to the idea of decreasing their revenue stream. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/44 "2009-04-10T00:56:37Z")
I see I’ve been ticketed by the grammar police. How reckless of me. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/45 "2009-04-10T01:33:36Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Yeah. Bull Effin’ Honkey. I use one, even though at worst I only speed moderately, because I never know if I will run into Patrolman Bumfutz who (A) is desperate to reach his quota (and don’t go telling me about the myth that there ain’t no quotas, especially if you get all semantic-al on me about it-call them whatever you want, they still exist), and/or (B) doesn’t know how to use his radar/laser gun, such that he gets a speed reading off the SUV behind me, thinks I was the one speeding (because he didn’t pay attention when they trained him, or they never trained him properly in the first place, or notices that I am out of state, and the SUV is not), and pulls _me_ over instead. > > Yes, most police are honest, fair, & competent, but all it takes is one (or a department) who isn’t, and I’m looking at several hundred if not thousand in raised insurance fees. No frickin’ thanks. In scenario B, though, I don’t see how the radar detector would help you any. Your detector lets you know that Patrolman Bumfutz is running a radar detector up ahead; you make sure that you’re not exceeding the speed limit. Unfortunately for you, Patrolman Bumfutz locks onto that speed demon in the sports car in the next lane over, but _thinks_ he has locked on to you, so he pulls you over and gives you a ticket–what good does the radar detector do you in this case? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/46 "2009-04-10T02:37:21Z")
It, by allowing me to slow down and make adjustments to my position, allows me to avoid such “guilt by proximity” scenarios. If I didn’t have a detector, I would be happily chugging down the highway (in this case at the limit) oblivious to the upcoming danger. With the detector, I get over to the right lane, get 5 below, and then it is very doubtful he will perceive me as the offender. The usual case is when someone is passing a slower car while a faster one (SUV especially) comes up behind. You move over to the let speed demon past, but right before you do is when the LEO locks on to the SUV, but since you were in front and in the passing lane the LEO thinks you are the offender instead. If I knew he was there in the first place I can avoid that kind of situation and just stay tucked behind the slow guy instead while Senor Gonzo zips ahead and gets nailed. This thread is a good example of how “blanket” moralistic statements often gang angley when you have to deal with the real world and the kind of complexities and ambiguities you won’t find in your little code of laws. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/47 "2009-04-10T03:18:20Z")
The basic speed law in California is a “reasonable” speed. Radar detectors allow me to prevent a dispute with the state over what is a reasonable speed. So, by reducing the likelihood of a legal dispute in the courts, I am conserving judicial resources. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/48 "2009-04-10T03:56:16Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > I doubt many local municipalities are going to be very open to the idea of decreasing their revenue stream. Regardless, it’s still the better way to go. Otherwise it’s like people who “protest” high taxes by cheating on them. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/49 "2009-04-10T13:05:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > After all, it could be argued that buying a radar detector means that you are planning to commit _pre-meditated_ speeding. True, but plenty of folks commit pre-meditated speeding every single day without a radar detector. I don’t think their poor planning makes them more moral than criminals who prepare more effectively. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/50 "2009-04-10T13:09:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If cops are tending to an accident cleanup, they aren’t going to be turning on their radar detectors, and even if they did, they would be too busy to watch them. > > Radar units don’t broadcast from all cop cars all the time like a beacon. Is that the way you think it works? That is the way it works very often. You don’t think all radar guns have exactly the same features, do you? I own a radar detector, do you? I also live less than an 1/8th mile from a police substation in a city of about 3/4 million. I see a LOT of radar, even when the cop is not in the friggin car Radar guns are left on all of the time, in fact, more often than not, they are on in my experience. I could use the thing as a Whataburger detector. I’d imagine most of them have multiple modes where they gun could be left on, or they could be instantly turned on by a momentary switch. There is at least [one model](http://www.stalkerradar.com/law_dual.shtml) that will tell the officer the speed of multiple vehicles in front of them while moving, these are understandably usually left on. I was speaking from experience. It was not a theoretical usage of the device. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/51 "2009-04-10T15:07:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > So, if a person offered you $100 to stand on a street corner, and send him a message on a cell phone or on a two-way radio if you saw a police officer approaching, you would not see any moral issues in such a proposition? He hasn’t told you of any illegal activity that he is about to engage in, but he just wants to know about the presence of law enforcement. I was away all afternoon, so this is my first chance to respond to this. No. That’s making apples into oranges. What I said was that being aware of **my own** behavior being watched is my own choice to make. (Bolding mine) The question is not about the morality of the manufacturer (or in your instance the lookout on the corner), but about my own ethical position wanting to know if I’m being watched. IANAL but it seems to me that there’s a pretty wide gap which is logically spanned by whether or not a reasonable person would consider whether or not that person on the corner had any basis to think he was aiding a criminal enterprise. Even if you take the argument that radar detector manufacturers and users are using them to circumvent the law (again - not really a clear assumption to me, or having read this far - to some others), it’s a **speeding ticket** not a drug deal. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/52 "2009-04-10T17:18:02Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > This thread is a good example of how “blanket” moralistic statements often gang angley when you have to deal with the real world and the kind of complexities and ambiguities you won’t find in your little code of laws. “often gang angley”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/53 "2009-04-10T17:47:00Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > “often gang angley”? 😕 It helps if you are Scotch and a fan of Robbie Burns. It means “often go astray”, as in [“The best laid schemes of mice and men gang aft agley.”](http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/best-laid+plans+of+mice+and+men+oft+go+astray) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503/54 "2009-04-10T17:47:22Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > “often gang angley”? 😕 “Gang aft agley”, perhaps? Like the field mouse poem? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-moral-justification-for-automobile-radar-detectors/492503.md?page=2)