# Is there a name for this dating phenomenon? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 30, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364 "2022-05-30T16:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/21 "2022-05-31T01:20:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > At least… a decade? My estimate would have been closer to a few hundred millennia. Or more. Nah, the phenomenon of very slightly acquainted couples going out alone together to share commercially purchased refreshments is mostly AFAICT a 20th-century, and especially post-WWI, phenomenon (except in the case of sex workers, of course). The weird hybrid of patriarchy and gender egalitarianism that became established in the “western” world after 1900, especially with the advent of female suffrage, meant that while many young unmarried women had an unprecedented degree of freedom to go where they liked, when they liked, with whom they liked, they still generally had much less money than their male counterparts. So while traditional courtship had depended on the home, family and chaperonage, [the (romantic) “date”](https://www.etymonline.com/word/date?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_29261) shifted the focus to public commercial venues for socializing, where individual purchasing power carried greater weight. And with the concept of “dating” came the concept of the [“gold digger”](https://www.etymonline.com/word/gold-digger), or women who exploited the dating process for pecuniary advantage. (And “a few hundred millennia”? Do you really think that the 20th-century patriarchy system where men typically have more money than women and thus more access to food resources like restaurant meals is analogous to situations in prehistoric societies? Who do you think were the ones gathering and “mini-hunting” (trapping, fishing etc.) most of that food back then, anyway?) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/22 "2022-05-31T01:25:37Z")
“Real” men pick up the check. Then, after marriage they don’t pick up a sponge, a mop, a broom, their underwear… ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/23 "2022-05-31T01:29:10Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > It’s payback for all the guys who push for sex on the first date and when they get it they ghost. Personally I’d rather pay a restaurant tab than get an STD so there you go. Right because men who are victims of this are the exact same ones who ghost after sex. How the fuck is this even relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/24 "2022-05-31T01:33:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > How the fuck is this even relevant? I was wondering that myself. Obviously the traditional patterns of “dating” culture in post-industrial-revolution societies have some adversarial aspects, where some men try to pressure women into sex out of a sense of financial obligation, and some women fake short-term interest in men to get free meals and treats. But I don’t think it’s accurate to describe either of those phenomena as being merely “payback” for the other. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/25 "2022-05-31T01:42:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But I don’t think it’s accurate to describe either of those phenomena as being merely “payback” for the other. Of course not unless you are a misogynist or a misandryist. If someone goes on a date with me just for the free meal, more power to them. I doubt that’s ever happened. I have never been on a date like the one in the OP where things started as drink and then changed in scope to a meal though. That’s mainly because I hate bars and wouldn’t go to one unless there is a good band playing in which case I am not hitting on women. I have also never ghosted after first date sex because that’s fucking gross. I wouldn’t go there if I didn’t feel like there was potential beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/26 "2022-05-31T01:52:26Z")
Maybe these guys are following the incel script, where every attractive woman has been _monkey-branching_ from _Chad_ to _Chad,_ but now she’s _hit the wall_ and is climbing down off the _cock carousel_ and looking to settle down with her _beta._ ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/27 "2022-05-31T02:06:10Z")
Usually the first meet up is for coffee at an espresso bar. Occasionally for a drink, and usually I’ll be the one suggesting dinner (moderately priced down the street). What gets me are the ones that show up and the photo is 10 years and 10 kg out of date. I guess they want the date and figure their charm will make the other person not notice? It’s a deal killer for me. I’m bald and 60, so I put recent photos out there just to be honest. If you’ve got a problem with my lack of hair, I’d rather never meet up than you do the honor of letting me buy you dinner. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/28 "2022-05-31T02:25:23Z")
I assumed there were rules. If we agree to meet for a drink, then a drink it is. _Then here’s someone who wants to treat you to a nice meal because you have value!_ It should raise a red flag but it doesn’t. People are not in love but hoping to be loved…they don’t question whether it’s a mirage. I notice in that article @CairoCarol cited, the author mentions that women felt humiliated. Maybe this applies: “ **We are never so vulnerable as when we love…** ” ~Sigmund Freud. [Source](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8608506-we-are-never-so-vulnerable-as-when-we-love-and) If you told me someone stole a loaf of bread because (s)he was starving, I’d believe it. Starving for love isn’t so different. Peter Gabriel’s song is very good. [Youtube video here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqkTyMMEpHo) > And in this moment, I need to be needed > When my self-esteem is sinking, I like to be liked > In this emptiness and fear, > I want to be wanted > Cause I love to be loved I’m so glad they caught that guy… ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/29 "2022-05-31T02:25:48Z")
My first dates are either a walk, coffee or a moderate to nice-ish dinner depending on my mood. I always treat unless they insist in splitting which rarely happens. In all of my many dates, it’s been maybe twice that the pictures were horribly inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/30 "2022-05-31T02:47:59Z")
It’s nothing new. The “Black Dahlia” victim, Elizabeth Short, was known to do this. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/31 "2022-05-31T02:53:05Z")
My parents have been married for 60 years, and my dad still does all those things. I know what you’re talking about, however. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/32 "2022-05-31T03:06:10Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > he couldn’t remember the name for it, but it’s a regular occurrence, women going out on dates for the free food with zero intention of actually seeing the guy again. Oh, this isn’t the broad brush painting class? My bad. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/33 "2022-05-31T03:09:14Z")
Then how about addressing it directly instead of making an equally shitty sexists post. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/34 "2022-05-31T03:12:52Z")
How about you tend to your own knitting? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/35 "2022-05-31T03:15:04Z")
Because this is a message board where we discuss things. Own your sexism. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/36 "2022-05-31T03:21:26Z")
How about we move this thread to the Pit and have at it and rant? Dating, as it is commonly practiced in this so-called enlightened society, is profoundly inefficient, time-consuming, and frustrating for a great many participants, male and female alike (I presume), and there is always much to grumble about. Every date that doesn’t lead to “something more”, where “something more” was expected or at least hoped for, is a waste of an evening that neither participant will ever get back, and a waste of money for many, which adds up. The “success rate” of first dates (for whatever value of “success” you may have defined) is miniscule. A more efficient and satisfactory dating protocol is badly needed. Is there any possible discussion to be had on suggestions for how that could be done? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/37 "2022-05-31T03:29:27Z")
I love dating. Yes, most first dates are a mutual meh but so what? People need to not have such a thin skin and not build up a ton of expectations. What’s inefficient about meeting in person and seeing if there’s chemistry? The online thing makes it more efficient generally in my experience because I (and they) can screen out deal breakers before you bother getting together. So you went out, met someone new and there weren’t sparks. I guess you could have been watching Friends re-runs or something instead. I’d perfer a first date. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/38 "2022-05-31T04:07:13Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Yes, most first dates are a mutual meh but so what? People need to not have such a thin skin and not build up a ton of expectations. Sure, but I do think that both parties in that situation should be cautious and not try to push it beyond a certain polite distance appropriate for a first meeting. That means no pressuring or coaxing the other person for sex or other forms of intimacy, and no pressuring or coaxing the other person to spend more than the most minimal amount of money on you, if that. (If, on the other hand, the other party is affirmatively delighted to provide you with whatever extravagant indulgence you desire—sexual, monetary or otherwise—without expecting any quid pro quo, well then, have yourself a ball.) But I think anybody who’s experienced any of the aforesaid pressuring or coaxing on a first date has a legitimate gripe rather than just being thin-skinned. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/39 "2022-05-31T04:12:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But I think anybody who’s experienced any of the aforesaid pressuring or coaxing on a first date has a legitimate gripe rather than just being thin-skinned I agree that they have a very legitimate gripe but they also shouldn’t let it bother them unless it rises to the level of assault or something. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364/40 "2022-05-31T04:13:18Z")
I haven’t gone on a romantic date in ages. And when i did, i insisted on splitting the bill. But i love having a meal with a new person and learning about them. I do that all the time at conferences and conventions (where everyone has already paid for the food). My best guess is that I’d be in the same camp as @hajario . If you feel like women are taking advantage of you to buy them food, just be upfront when they suggest buying some food, “okay, shall we split the bill?” or, “I’m not hungry, but if you want to buy something for yourself I’m happy to nurse my drink while you eat it.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-dating-phenomenon/965364.md?page=3)