# Is there a name for this kind of argument (only one thing matters)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 17, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560 "2014-02-17T20:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/21 "2020-08-13T00:08:45Z")
Roads are needed to get food to starving kids. The military is needed to protect food shipments. Nothing about stopping chicken fighting does anything to help starving kids. So, it’s not really a false dichotomy, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/22 "2020-08-13T00:14:58Z")
Of course it’s a false dichotomy. You don’t give a shit about animal welfare, so you’re presenting it as though we have to choose _either_ animal welfare _or_ the **absolute highest** budget priority - starving kids. If starving kids are the apex priority, then we should _already_ have redirected funds from all less important priorities to fully fund feeding starving kids. If we assume that the total budget is fixed, the correct comparison is between spending resources on animal welfare and the _least_ important alternative resource usage, not the _most_ important alternative resource usage. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/23 "2020-08-13T00:18:11Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Nothing about stopping chicken fighting does anything to help starving kids. So, it’s not really a false dichotomy, is it? Actually, it is. Stopping cock-fighting leaves more money in the hands of adults who are betting on that blood sport that they could otherwise spend on buying food for their hungry children. To say nothing about preventing cruelty to animals which can desensitize people to cruelty in general, lowering the barriers against cruelty to children, so it is worth some expenditures. It also has some value in blunting the reach of organized crime, albeit that is more attenuated. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/24 "2020-08-13T00:39:51Z")
No, human beings should be the apex priority. After that, then maybe worry about chickens. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/25 "2020-08-13T00:58:48Z")
So fine - at least you’re now expressing your views honestly. Supposing that caring about animal welfare is an either/or with letting children die of starvation was just bogus. But you can’t just say simplistically that humans are more important than animals, as though that’s controversial. Of course humans come first, but it’s ridiculous to suppose that we can’t care about animal welfare until we and _all_ human suffering. And where there are tradeoffs, presumably you don’t think that any trivial benefit to humans is justified at the expensive of causing great suffering to (say) a dog? And that even if you believe the suffering of a chicken is worth less than a dog, surely it’s worth _something_? Aside from convincing people to give a shit (which people almost always do when actually _exposed_ to animal suffering first hand), the biggest obstacle to improving animal welfare in affluent countries is convincing people to be willing to just pay slightly more for animal food products. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/26 "2020-08-13T01:00:40Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So fine - at least you’re now expressing your views honestly. Supposing that caring about animal welfare is an either/or with letting children die of starvation was just bogus. Sorry, I didn’t mean it to come out that way. It was just an example. I don’t lie and don’t try to misrepresent anything I’m saying here. If it seems like that, than that is my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/27 "2020-08-13T01:02:56Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > “Why are police arresting jaywalkers or hookers instead of concentrating on real crime?” “Why is the town replacing sewer lines when schools need textbooks?” “Why is the city building a new convention center when so many people are homeless?” - on and on, implying that absolutely nothing is worth spending time or money on until that one problem is addressed. If the speaker suggests that choices are mutually exclusive when they are demonstrably not, it’s a clear-cut false dilemma (i.e. city budgets are, and usually should be, resourced to satisfy multiple needs at the same time). The speaker is also showing an inability to imagine that others exist who may have different priorities on municipal spending. I don’t know if that’s a fallacy _per se_, but that usually grinds my gears more than the false choice. I mean, is it really that hard to imagine that one person in the world might be bothered less by old textbooks than literal rivers of shit streaming through town because the sewer lines failed? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/28 "2020-08-13T01:03:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t lie and don’t try to misrepresent anything I’m saying here. I didn’t think you were being dishonest in any way, I just thought you were making a terrible argument. Exactly the same bad argument that a lot of people make, as noted in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/29 "2020-08-13T01:04:10Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Of course humans come first, but it’s ridiculous to suppose that we can’t care about animal welfare until we and _all_ human suffering. Of course we can. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/30 "2020-08-13T01:07:55Z")
I’m not talking about people whose job is to take care of animals. I’m talking about people who control budgets and charitable contributions. If the question during the meeting is “where should we give this money?” then “stopping chicken fighting” shouldn’t even be an option as long as there is another budget item or items that involve helping actual human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/31 "2020-08-13T01:21:07Z")
So when are you storming the ASPCA? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/32 "2020-08-13T01:25:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > …“stopping chicken fighting” shouldn’t even be an option as long as there is another budget item or items that involve helping actual human beings. But you’re saying this as though it’s an easy moral problem. Define “helping”. Let’s make this a more realistic and important real-world issue than cock fighting: battery farms. It “helps” people to have cheaper food. But what if dramatic improvements to the quality of life of billions of chickens could be achieved, where the tradeoff is increasing the price of eggs by 50c a dozen? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/33 "2020-08-13T01:25:32Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > So when are you storming the ASPCA Hmmmm…I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with monetary contributions meant that I had to physically storm a place. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/34 "2020-08-13T01:26:51Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Let’s make this a more realistic and important real-world issue than cock fighting: battery farms. It “helps” people to have cheaper food. But what if dramatic improvements to the quality of life of billions of chickens could be achieved, where the tradeoff is increasing the price of eggs by 50c a dozen? I don’t know what a “battery farm” is. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/35 "2020-08-13T01:28:01Z")
> **[Battery cage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_cage)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Battery cages are a housing system used for various animal production methods, but primarily for egg-laying hens. The name arises from the arrangement of rows and columns of identical cages connected, in a unit, as in an artillery battery. Although the term is usually applied to poultry farming, similar cage systems are used for other animals. Battery cages have generated controversy between advocates for animal welfare and industrial producers. > ... ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/36 "2020-08-13T01:33:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Let’s make this a more realistic and important real-world issue than cock fighting: battery farms. It “helps” people to have cheaper food. But what if dramatic improvements to the quality of life of billions of chickens could be achieved, where the tradeoff is increasing the price of eggs by 50c a dozen? A 50c price increase doesn’t affect me, so sure, if chicken farmers want to do that, then good. If it turns out that the price increase makes eggs too expensive for poor people and they are suffering because of it, then no, I wouldn’t be for that. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/37 "2020-08-13T01:33:52Z")
Sounds like you aren’t that serious about helping actual human beings then. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/38 "2020-08-13T01:35:22Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Sounds like you aren’t that serious about helping actual human beings then I could be, if you could tell me how storming the local ASPCA could help actual human beings. I’m not seeing how that action translates to helping human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/39 "2020-08-13T01:46:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > A 50c price increase doesn’t affect me, so sure, if chicken farmers want to do that, then good. If it turns out that the price increase makes eggs too expensive for poor people and they are suffering because of it, then no, I wouldn’t be for that. These are pathetically weak arguments. Of course _chicken farmers_ won’t do anything voluntarily that increases their costs. It would need to be done by legislation _if we believe it’s the moral thing to do_. And again it’s clearly not an either/or with poor people having enough to eat, that’s the same false dichotomy. The nation is clearly wealthy enough to make whatever tiny adjustment to the tax/benefit system is necessary so that poor people’s overall expenditure does not go up, and (say) 60c a dozen is borne by those who aren’t in poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560/40 "2020-08-13T01:49:08Z")
You tell us how the existence of the ASPCA prevents us from effectively lowering human suffering and I bet you can connect the dots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-kind-of-argument-only-one-thing-matters/681560.md?page=3)