# Is there a name for this plot device where someone appears insane but really isn't **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451 "2022-08-10T20:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/1 "2022-08-10T20:33:41Z")
I can’t remember who, but I read a while ago that some people have come up with a list of all the plot devices seen in art (film, TV, books). I don’t know if thats possible but I’m wondering about this particular plot device. The character (usually main character) acts erratically and weirdly. Everyone assumes the character is crazy. Towards the end of the film/movie/book you find out that not only is the character sane, but their weird and erratic behavior makes perfect sense because they have some kind of superpower or secret knowledge and are using that info. Examples may be the night visions episode ‘patterns’, the movie 23 with Jim Carrey, 12 monkeys, the machinist, etc. Then you have the opposite type of film where the main character appears to be sane and thinks they are sane, but it turns out they are insane (shutter island, fight club). ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/2 "2022-08-10T20:35:44Z")
> **[Obfuscating Insanity - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingInsanity)** > > It's pretty much a given that no one takes crazy people seriously. It's also a given that a lot of people give crazy people a wide berth lest they flip out on them. A lot of people are aware of this and choose to take advantage of it, although … Example: Lord Shojo in _The Order of the Stick_. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/3 "2022-08-10T20:39:02Z")
That is a good website, but the page ‘mistaken for insane’ also has a lot of good tropes too. The trope ‘Cassandra Truths’ also seems to fit. Maybe theres more than one definition for it. > **[Mistaken for Insane - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MistakenForInsane)** > > This trope happens when a character is perfectly sane... yet one or more others don't believe them. Perhaps they're making wild, yet true, claims (maybe involving seeing something or someone Invisible to Normals or a conspiracy or similar that's … > **[Cassandra Truth - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CassandraTruth)** > > Sometimes people just won't believe you. A common staple of Disney and children's films, where the Kid Hero stumbles upon an evil conspiracy or a criminal ring and their parents and the police refuse to listen. Nothing left to do but save the day … ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/4 "2022-08-10T20:54:36Z")
It seems to me that, say, Lord Shojo and River Tam are two completely different sorts of things. Shojo is sane, but seems to be insane because he actively pretends to be, because he’s found it politically advantageous for his enemies to underestimate him. River, meanwhile, is sane, but seems to be insane, because the world around her (or at least, some aspects of it) is insane, and because she has a creepy level of knowledge and awareness of that insanity. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/5 "2022-08-10T21:02:23Z")
Not exactly a name for the plot device, but as a general description of the type of person described in the OP, the term “crazy like a fox” might apply. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/6 "2022-08-11T01:37:37Z")
Dates back at least to Edgar in _Lear_: [https://www.playshakespeare.com/king-lear/characters/edgar](https://www.playshakespeare.com/king-lear/characters/edgar) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/7 "2022-08-11T13:11:50Z")
But Edgar is pretending to be mad. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/8 "2022-08-11T13:29:45Z")
Yes, exactly as described in the TV Tropes article: > **[Obfuscating Insanity - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingInsanity)** > > It's pretty much a given that no one takes crazy people seriously. It's also a given that a lot of people give crazy people a wide berth lest they flip out on them. A lot of people are aware of this and choose to take advantage of it, although … > It’s also a given that a lot of people give crazy people a wide berth lest they flip out on them. A lot of people are aware of this and choose to take advantage of it, although their reasons for doing so vary from one character to the next. Sometimes the apparent nutcase is actually perfectly sane, ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/9 "2022-08-11T15:04:05Z")
If the person is being set up to appear insane then it’s called [Gaslighting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)), from the movie of the same name. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/10 "2022-08-11T16:34:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Dates back at least to Edgar in _Lear_: Goes back at least three years earlier to the same author. “I am but mad north-northwest. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.” ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/11 "2022-08-13T07:03:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “I am but mad north-northwest. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.” Ah, but he would say that, wouldn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/12 "2022-08-13T13:34:30Z")
It’s a point in dispute; has been for centuries. > **[HAMLET-mad-or-sane.pdf](https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.socsd.org/dist/0/369/files/2010/11/HAMLET-mad-or-sane.pdf)** > > 201.00 KB ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-plot-device-where-someone-appears-insane-but-really-isnt/969451/13 "2022-08-15T05:49:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > ''I am but mad north-northwest. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.” “Guildenstern: I think I have it. A man talking [sense](https://www.moviequotes.com/topic/senses/) to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself. - Rosencrantz: Or just as mad.”