# Is there a name for this type of classical music?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [May 29, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238 "2003-05-29T12:05:36Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Apollon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@Apollon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollon)\
**Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238/21 "2003-05-29T20:06:11Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \*  
> \*\*😕  
> Wasn’t Till Eulenspiegel the lead singer for Rammstein? :dubious: \*\*

That’s Til Lindeman I think. 🙂  
Till Eulenspiegel is a German legend, based on an actual medieval jester or some such. Till’s many pranks made him unpopular with the ruling castes, and they had him executed. Yes, the execution can be heard in the symphonic poem. 🙂

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**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\
**Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238/22 "2003-05-29T20:26:14Z")

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**Programme Music: Music of a narrative or descriptive kind… Programme music, which has been contrasted with Absolute Music, is distinguished by its attempt to depict objects and events.**

To summarize the rest of a long definition, the “programme” of a piece (and that’s “program” for the US contingent amongst you) can be as specific as depicting a dog barking or a battle, or as vague as depicting a general feeling of “pastorality”. Another manifestation of this is the use of short themes or motives to represent specific things or ideas. Wagner takes this to an extreme in his Ring Cycle, where virtually everything and everyone has its own little _leitmotif_: the Ring, Siegfried, his sword, fire, etc.

In contrast, absolute music is music without a deliberate program. Your average string quartet doesn’t necessarily _mean_ anything – it’s music for music’s sake. The two types of music do get muddied a bit when extramusical elements get imposed on the music afterwards – Barber’s _Adagio_ started life as a string quartet movement, and achieved its status as Official Depressing Music later. Strauss’s _Also Sprach Zarathustra_ is forever linked with _2001_. This doesn’t make it programme music, technically, but such associations do tend to stick regardless.

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**Author:** ![Apollon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@Apollon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollon)\
**Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238/23 "2003-05-29T21:18:23Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jr8 \*  
> \*\* Strauss’s _Also Sprach Zarathustra_ is forever linked with _2001_. This doesn’t make it programme music, technically, but such associations do tend to stick regardless. \*\*

Very true, just a minor detail: Zarathustra _is_ in fact programmatic, though not because of 2001. 🙂  
The opening bars that everyone knows are supposed to depict the sunrise. The subsequent parts have titles that correspond to chapters of Nietzsche’s Zarathustra.

Curiously, this genre of music is highly popular among laymen, while experts don’t seem to appreciate it much (neither today nor 100 years ago).

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**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\
**Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238/24 "2003-05-29T21:28:32Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Apollon \*  
> **Very true, just a minor detail: Zarathustra _is_ in fact programmatic, though not because of 2001. 🙂**

Of course it is. I even knew that. _Bad_ example. :smack: :smack: :smack: \*\*

> [@](#):
>
> Curiously, this genre of music is highly popular among laymen, while experts don’t seem to appreciate it much (neither today nor 100 years ago). \*\*

I suppose the snob factor accounts for some of that; even the great unwashed can identify bird noises imitated by the flute section, but to appreciate the subtleties of a piece of chamber music requires somewhat more experience and/or education on the matter (or so some would say ;)).

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**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\
**Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-name-for-this-type-of-classical-music/178238/25 "2003-05-29T21:52:13Z")

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Let us not forget Ferde Grofé’s _Grand Canyon Suite_, which for many of us was the first example to which we were exposed.

::recalls the Disney 8mm educational film release where the hornytoad chases the insects across the sand in “On The Trail”::

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