# Is there a niche in militaries for really big guys? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724 "2011-01-24T01:52:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/21 "2011-01-24T16:47:19Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Brains Ready to Eat BREs might be an improvement over MREs… ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/22 "2011-01-24T17:57:12Z")
As others have pointed out, having very tall soldiers is frequently a disadvantage in modern warfare. Most tanks and planes and other military vehicles don’t have much leg room, and short guys can operate these machines more comfortably than tall guys. Tall guys are bigger targets, and would require more resources to feed and clothe. When you are talking about someone who is freakishly large, like a seven-footer, issues would come up like do they even make helmets, uniforms, and other equipment large enough for this guy. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/23 "2011-01-24T18:11:35Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Maybe a real-life “heavy weapons dude”, who could manage firearms with too much recoil for a smaller person? I think you’ve figured out that there isn’t much fist fighting in modern warfare, and you have this image of this huge freakin’ guy wielding a big fucking gun and causing havoc. There are two problems with this image. The first is that there would be little purpose in manufacturing these “big fucking guns,” that only a very small percentage of the population would be large enough to operate. The second problem is that for centuries humans have been building big fucking guns that are far too large for any one person, even if he was a giant, to handle on his own. > **[M198 howitzer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M198_howitzer)** > > The M198 is a medium-sized, towed 155 mm artillery piece, developed for service with the United States Army and Marine Corps. It was commissioned to be a replacement for the World War II-era M114 155 mm howitzer. It was designed and prototyped at the Rock Island Arsenal in 1969 with firing tests beginning in 1970 and went into full production there in 1978. It entered service in 1979 and since then 1,600 units have been produced. > The M198 was replaced in US and Australian service by the M777 how... This is a heavy weapon. It’s operated by a group of guys who have a truck. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/24 "2011-01-24T18:32:51Z")
There are stories of some Marines firing a BAR from the hip. Guadalcanal is one example. During a banzai charge a big guy stood up with a BAR and hosed them down. I apologize for not remembering his name. He was highly decorated for his actions that night. Only a strong guy can handle a BAR like that. > [@](#): > > Two companies from Kawaguchi’s 2nd Battalion charged up the southern edge of the ridge and pushed Edson’s troops back to Hill 123 on the center part of the ridge. Throughout the night, Marines at this position, supported by artillery, defeated wave after wave of frontal Japanese attacks, some of which resulted in hand-to-hand fighting. Japanese units that infiltrated past the ridge to the edge of the airfield were also repulsed. Attacks by the Kuma battalion and Oka’s unit at other locations on the Lunga perimeter were also defeated. On September 14, Kawaguchi led the survivors of his shattered brigade on a five day march west to the Matanikau Valley to join with Oka’s unit.[71] In total, Kawaguchi’s forces lost about 850 killed and the Marines 104. > **[Guadalcanal campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Guadalcanal)** > > Army: 19,200 dead, of whom 8,500 were killed in combat > The Guadalcanal campaign, also known as the Battle of Guadalcanal and codenamed Operation Watchtower by the United States, was an Allied offensive against forces of the Empire of Japan in the Solomon Islands during the Pacific Theater of World War II. It was fought between 7 August 1942 and 9 February 1943, and involved major land and naval battles on and surrounding the island of Guadalcanal. It was the first major Allied land offensive ... In modern warfare, they’d call in a close air support strike (CAS). Sometimes old school fighting still happens. Battle of la Drang in Viet Nam is an example. > [@](#): > > As the Americans rested in the tall grass, North Vietnamese soldiers were swarming towards them by the hundreds. It was 13:15. The close quarters, intense battle lasted for sixteen hours. > **[Battle of Ia Drang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_la_Drang)** > > 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) > 1st Battalion, 21st Artillery > 33rd Regiment: > 66th Regiment: ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/25 "2011-01-24T19:22:08Z")
My last year in the Army I had a 73 lb waiver due to muscle mass I was a programmer. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/26 "2011-01-24T20:47:13Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Speaking of eating, they (apparently) only make MREs (or whatever they call 'em now) one size. One portion does _not_ fit all if you have to cater to Hervé Villechaize and André “the Giant” Roussimoff at the same time. Plus the shoes, helmet, & uniforms - they have to be within a certain, well, uniform range, or else they would have to be custom-ordered for the XXXXL guys. I saw a documentary of André the Giant which mentioned that he received his national service draft papers as a young man in France. He and another fellow were walking towards the conscription centre, and a soldier at the gate said to a buddy, “that little guy won’t be accepted.” Of course, the little guy was, since he was normal height, just looked little compared to André. André was turned away. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/27 "2011-01-24T21:30:12Z")
Plus there’s the design issue. Someone severly out of proportion is likely to have more mdeical issues from what I’ve read. The size vs. coss-section joint area of bones, for example, is designed to handle average human loads unless the guy’s skeleton is abnormally thicker than human normal. A much larger person is more prone to joint problems; especially if he’s going to be jumping around like a superhero. Same for back and other critical joints. It’s the square-cube law. A guy just scaled 50% larger will have joints with 1.5x1.5=2.25 times the area; but weight will be 1.5x1.5x1.5=3.375 times heavier. The last thing you want is a guy shattering his anklebone in combat that will tie up 4 to 6 guys just carrying him back to base. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/28 "2011-01-24T21:41:15Z")
Maybe the huge guys could be MPs. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/29 "2011-01-24T22:45:44Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I think you’ve figured out that there isn’t much fist fighting in modern warfare, and you have this image of this huge freakin’ guy wielding a big fucking gun and causing havoc. There are two problems with this image. The first is that there would be little purpose in manufacturing these “big fucking guns,” that only a very small percentage of the population would be large enough to operate. The second problem is that for centuries humans have been building big fucking guns that are far too large for any one person, even if he was a giant, to handle on his own. I was trained to fire the FN-MAG (M-240) from the hip. I’m fairly big (6 feet, big frame), and most of the other machine gunners were my size or a bit bigger. The big guys aways got the machine guns. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/30 "2011-01-24T23:11:27Z")
Quoth **Elendil’s Heir** : > [@](#): > > Gen. Washington himself said the Revolution might not have been won, had it not been for Peter Francisco, a giant: [Peter Francisco - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Francisco) That says that he was 6’6" and 260 pounds, which is still pretty big by modern standards, but not freakishly so. A guy that big in the Army nowadays probably wouldn’t end up being called “the Virginia giant”, or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/31 "2011-01-24T23:20:41Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I think you’ve figured out that there isn’t much fist fighting in modern warfare, and you have this image of this huge freakin’ guy wielding a big fucking gun and causing havoc. Yeah, I started this thread more or less thinking of Andre the Giant wielding an M-60 like it was an assault rifle. There are lots of “man portable” weapons that a normal person can’t fire from the shoulder but maybe a big guy could. Impractical perhaps, but oh so [Rule of Cool](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/32 "2011-01-25T00:15:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Elendil’s Heir** :That says that he was 6’6" and 260 pounds, which is still pretty big by modern standards, but not freakishly so. A guy that big in the Army nowadays probably wouldn’t end up being called “the Virginia giant”, or anything like that. A guy that big today probably couldn’t pick up a cannon single-handedly, either, as Francisco did. Even allowing for some exaggeration of his exploits, the dude was _strong_. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/33 "2011-01-25T02:06:45Z")
I worked with a guy that served in the Marines. If he was to be believed, during boot camp he was selected for special training because he scored in the top couple percent for physical conditioning. He was probably 6 foot tall and lean but was freakishly muscular and exceptionally strong so it seemed believable at the time. He was not a body builder or strength training type, he was just born that way. The special training was for carrying big radio backpacks or something (this was in the sixties) but I don’t think he ever saw combat. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/34 "2011-01-25T12:19:45Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > As others have pointed out, having very tall soldiers is frequently a disadvantage in modern warfare. Most tanks and planes and other military vehicles don’t have much leg room, and short guys can operate these machines more comfortably than tall guys. My greatgrandfather was selected for the Royal Guard because of his height (this would be c. 1904): he was one of the six tallest guys on his draft group. Every three months, the six tallest guys would be sent to the Royal Guard. After some two years spent “watching the king have breakfast”, he joined the Guardia Civil, a national police body focused mostly on rural areas, borders and prisons. Much of his duty was done on horseback, my grandfather grew up among horses. In the mid-1930s, my grandfather was selected for the Cavalry thanks to his height and horsemanship background, when his own draft came. At the start of the 1936-9 Civil War, he was informed that he had to fulfill his draft duty. Say what? I already did! Damnit… ok, so volunteer or get taken out back and shot. He “volunteered” and, because he’d done his service in the Cavalry, he got sent to the Cavalry. Only it was not horseback any more: it was armored. For a guy thereabouts of 6’4", the cramped confines of a steel box designed with dudes 5’4" or so in mind were hell. So there you are: two jobs for which height was a plus, and one for which it’s a pain in the neck (and the hips, knees, lumbars…) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/35 "2011-01-25T12:57:31Z")
If you were a really big guy who could play football, they might find a way to make an exception. How else is Army going to beat Navy? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/36 "2011-01-25T14:13:08Z")
If you were a tall Prussian soldier, they had a special regiment for you: [Potsdam Giants - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Giants) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/37 "2011-01-25T15:21:06Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Plus there’s the design issue. Someone severly out of proportion is likely to have more mdeical issues from what I’ve read. The size vs. coss-section joint area of bones, for example, is designed to handle average human loads unless the guy’s skeleton is abnormally thicker than human normal. A much larger person is more prone to joint problems; especially if he’s going to be jumping around like a superhero. Same for back and other critical joints. > > It’s the square-cube law. A guy just scaled 50% larger will have joints with 1.5x1.5=2.25 times the area; but weight will be 1.5x1.5x1.5=3.375 times heavier. The last thing you want is a guy shattering his anklebone in combat that will tie up 4 to 6 guys just carrying him back to base. And Andre the Giant is a classic example of that - his huge size was certainly an asset in his wrestling career but by the late mid to late 30s he was in daily, horrible pain related not to wrestling injuries but just being bigger than people are designed to be, and his heart had trouble keeping up with the workload. In fact, he died of heart failure. He had said several times in interviews that he expect to die young as people with his medical condition usually didn’t make it past 40 or 45 and Andre died at the age of 46. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/38 "2011-01-25T20:36:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I was trained to fire the FN-MAG (M-240) from the hip. I’m fairly big (6 feet, big frame), and most of the other machine gunners were my size or a bit bigger. > > The big guys aways got the machine guns. Yeah, but you’re talking about larger than average guys. The OP was talking about an unusually large person. Were there any seven foot guys in your units who wielded weapons in a fashion that would be impossible for an average infantryman? Because if there was, and you haven’t shared said story with the Dope, you’ve been holding out on us. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/39 "2011-01-25T20:42:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There are stories of some Marines firing a BAR from the hip. Guadalcanal is one example. During a banzai charge a big guy stood up with a BAR and hosed them down. I apologize for not remembering his name. He was highly decorated for his actions that night. Only a strong guy can handle a BAR like that. I don’t know if he shot it from the hip, but Clyde Barrow’s favorite weapon was the BAR, and I recall reading that he was a very short guy. Which of course doesn’t mean he wasn’t strong. And in fact only really relates to your post in that it has to do with a BAR. But I will have more to say about Guadalcanal in my post. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724/40 "2011-01-25T20:50:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Yeah, I started this thread more or less thinking of Andre the Giant wielding an M-60 like it was an assault rifle. There are lots of “man portable” weapons that a normal person can’t fire from the shoulder but maybe a big guy could. Impractical perhaps, but oh so [Rule of Cool](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) Well John Basilone picked up a machine gun and used it during the WWII battle of Gaudalcanal. I’m fairly certain he wasn’t a giant, although I’m sure he was a strong guy. > **[John Basilone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Basilone)** > > John Basilone (November 4, 1916 – February 19, 1945) was a United States Marine Corps gunnery sergeant who received the Medal of Honor for actions during the Battle for Henderson Field in the Guadalcanal campaign, and the Navy Cross posthumously for extraordinary heroism during the Battle of Iwo Jima. He was the only enlisted Marine to receive both of these decorations in World War II. > Basilone enlisted in the Marine Corps on June 3, 1940, after serving three years in the United States Army ... This is the gun he used. I think one could argue that it’s considerably more impressive to pick up and run around using than an M60. > **[M1917 Browning machine gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Browning_machine_gun)** > > The M1917 Browning machine gun is a heavy machine gun used by the United States armed forces in World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War; it has also been used by other nations. It was a crew-served, belt-fed, water-cooled machine gun that served alongside the much lighter air-cooled Browning M1919. It was used at the battalion level, and often mounted on vehicles (such as a jeep). There were two main iterations: the M1917, which was used in World War I and the M1917A1, w... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-niche-in-militaries-for-really-big-guys/568724.md?page=3)