# Is there a non-bigoted reason to be anti-same-sex-marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222 "2021-07-24T20:41:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/81 "2021-07-25T01:43:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why is the argument “our hetero marriage is divinely blessed by God but your filthy gay marriage is an abomination before the Lord” not bigoted? Fortunately, no one has made that argument. > [@Babale](#): > > Is the argument “I was made in God’s image, while you were made in God’s image as well but then cursed with the sign of Ham and so deserve to be my slave” bigoted? Nor that one. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/82 "2021-07-25T01:46:16Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > And which aspect of this definition does this fall under? > > > you could think gay people are great, you just don’t want them getting married. Which definition does this fall under? > you could think black people are great. You just don’t think they should own land, or sit in your part of the bus, or drink from your drinking fountain, or marry your daughter ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/83 "2021-07-25T01:48:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > you could think black people are great. You just don’t think they should own land, or sit in your part of the bus, or drink from your drinking fountain, or marry your daughter I’m not sure how this pertains to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/84 "2021-07-25T01:49:25Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Why is the argument “our hetero marriage is divinely blessed by God but your filthy gay marriage is an abomination before the Lord” not bigoted? > > Fortunately, no one has made that argument. Except that you literally did: > [@kevlaw](#): > > The argument is that God instituted marriage as an institution for one man and one woman. So a marriage between a man and a man doesn’t fit the institution created by your God- it is an “abomination” in his eyes. (Oh, no one made that argument, except Deuteronomy) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/85 "2021-07-25T01:49:52Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > I’m not sure how this pertains to the discussion. In what way is it any different than what you posted about gay people? ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/86 "2021-07-25T01:51:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Except that you literally did I think we are using different definitions of the word ‘literally’. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/87 "2021-07-25T01:51:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In what way is it any different than what you posted about gay people? I don’t recall posting anything about gay people. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/88 "2021-07-25T01:51:58Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > I think we are using different definitions of the word ‘literally’ Is your argument that the Catholic Church does NOT view gay marriage as an abomination? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/89 "2021-07-25T01:52:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Is your argument that the Catholic Church does NOT view gay marriage as an abomination? I have made no such argument. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/90 "2021-07-25T01:52:34Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Ok. I don’t agree with this, but I can see this argument: > > Families, not individuals, are the fundamental building blocks of society (lots of conservative thought implicitly assumes this). As such, we need the vast majority of people to be in heterosexual marriages, with children. Society is just shaped around that organization. So gay marriage, along with easy divorce, contraception, career-minded women, all that, threaten the fundamental structure of society. We should not be recognizing any institutions that encourage deviations from that model. > > I don’t agree with any of that, in case it’s not clear, but it’s not inherently religious. Looking through some old threads I’ve been involved in, there are a large number that advance your goal in life is to have children, so same-sex marriage is wrong. About an equal number blather on about the “sanctity of marriage.” I notice that nobody just came right out and said Gay people shouldn’t have rights, but that’s what it sounds to me like they really meant. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/91 "2021-07-25T01:54:35Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > I have made no such argument. Uhhh… what? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/92 "2021-07-25T01:55:25Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > In what way is it any different than what you posted about gay people? > > I don’t recall posting anything about gay people. Let me help your memory: > [@kevlaw](#): > > The argument is that God instituted marriage as an institution for one man and one woman. I get that from your position as a straight person it’s easy to pretend that this has nothing to do with real gay people, but in fact this is the exact line of logic used to prosecute homosexuals for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/93 "2021-07-25T01:58:44Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I notice that nobody just came right out and said Gay people shouldn’t have rights, but that’s what it sounds to me like they really meant. Arguments are much easier when you ignore what they are saying and you argue, instead, against what you imagine they meant. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/94 "2021-07-25T02:03:43Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > Arguments are much easier when you ignore what they are saying and you argue, instead, against what you imagine they meant Right, like when we pretend that this doesn’t have anything to do with gay people: > [@kevlaw](#): > > The argument is that God instituted marriage as an institution for one man and one woman. It doesn’t mention groups at all. Arguments are much easier when you ignore what they are plainly saying and argue that they mean something else. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/95 "2021-07-25T02:04:12Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > I notice that nobody just came right out and said Gay people shouldn’t have rights, but that’s what it sounds to me like they really meant. > > Arguments are much easier when you ignore what they are saying and you argue, instead, against what you imagine they meant. Sorry, pal. Not taking the bait. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/96 "2021-07-25T02:06:30Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > > [@kevlaw](#): > > > > I have made no such argument. > > Uhhh… what? At no point in this discussion have I said anything about whether or not the Catholic Church does or does not view gay marriage as an abomination. I’m starting to suspect that you and Babale went to the same school of debating as [GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle) where you are taught to argue against what you imagine the other person meant rather than what they said. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/97 "2021-07-25T02:08:51Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > I’m starting to suspect that you and Babale went to the same school of debating as [GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle) where you are taught to argue against what imagine the other person meant rather than what they said. Still nope. But thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/98 "2021-07-25T02:09:38Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > The argument is that God instituted marriage as an institution for one man and one woman. It doesn’t mention groups at all. Claiming that this argument says nothing about gay people is patently ridiculous. If you said “White men are created in God’s image” and then pretended that you weren’t saying anything about blacks or women with that statement, that would be obviously ridiculous. Yet you do exactly the same thing with regards to gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/99 "2021-07-25T02:16:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Claiming that this argument says nothing about gay people is patently ridiculous. I made no such claim. > [@Babale](#): > > If you said “White men are created in God’s image” and then pretended that you weren’t saying anything about blacks or women with that statement, that would be obviously ridiculous. I did not say this either. > [@Babale](#): > > Yet you do exactly the same thing with regards to gay marriage. Nor this. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222/100 "2021-07-25T02:20:51Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > This was me on trans issues; **Una Persson** and others set me straight, with logic and rational discussion. This so much. I wonder how many people that lovely Persson brought over to the light. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-non-bigoted-reason-to-be-anti-same-sex-marriage/947222.md?page=6)