While I understand why people who oppose SSM (or homosexuality in general) may mean well but feel constricted by whichever religious dogma they follow, ultimately all they’re doing is outsourcing their bigotry. “I’m not a bigot - it’s God who’s the bigot! If He wasn’t opposed to it, I’d be fine with it!” is an argument that rarely rings true, particularly given the long, long, long history of the Bible (and other religious works) being used to justify whichever position the believer happens to want it to support.
Well, he may not have suggested “using a different word”, but I suggested it to him at the time:
And his reply was — “Yes, it is the entirety of my objection.“
That’s really just the You have to tolerate my intolerance argument. It doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
You may not agree with this argument but that does not make it bigoted.
Side note: a billion people in the Catholic Church are required to agree with that argument.
This isn’t an answer to the OP but I would like to point out how one argument of pro-SSM people has shifted over time.
17-20 years ago, when gay marriage was opposed by the societal majority, the argument of pro-SSM folks was, “It doesn’t matter what the majority thinks - what is morally right is morally right. After all, the majority of Southerners once opposed the abolition of slavery, etc. Majorities can be wrong.”
But, starting a decade or so ago, when SSM began to get the majority of popular support, suddenly the tune changed. Suddenly it became, “We need to pass gay marriage because 70% of Americans support it; it’s what the majority wants.” (That wasn’t the only reason cited in favor of SSM, of course, but it became a commonly touted one.)
If someone wants to argue for XYZ reasons that SSM is good, that’s one thing. If they want to argue for XYZ reasons that SSM is bad, that’s one thing. But we can’t say majority opinion doesn’t count in one time but does in another.
And that, in fact, was the solution that France chose to implement until 2013. Not so ridiculous, perhaps.
Would it cleave the church to ignore government ideas about marriage?
I come from a religious tradition that attaches no importance to catholicity. How much of the RC attitude is due to ingrained catholicity, does it have any theological significance?
I regarded the debate in Australia as primarily between the RC church members and the lapsed members, with both sides only arguing about which hierarchical structure should control marriage recognition, as if it wasn’t possible to have two independent forms.
And yet they don’t.
And yes, the argument is still bigoted, even if it came from a bigoted holy book or a bigoted god almighty, himself.
That’s one of those “cuts both ways” things; twenty years ago, the anti-SSM people were using MAJORITY RULES as a defense for their stance, and of course, when the majority opinion shifted, suddenly that didn’t matter any longer. That’s a double standard 
.
If you are suggesting that it’s not just every catholic who is a bigot but God himself who is the bigot, I have to wonder who is being intolerant to whom.
Sure, it does. It just bugs me when people latch onto or ditch things as they see fit, I guess.
No argument from me there!
It would not — as long as the government did not attempt to impose government ideas about marriage on the church.
How about the government has no place in marriage and should only, at most, create civil unions? Straight and gay couples should get a civil union and if a religion also wants to grant them a marriage they are welcome to but marriage should only be a religious ceremony. If churches only want to marry straight people then no gay marriage is ok as a separation of church and state.
I suspect that most holding that view are from churches that “only want to marry straight people then no gay marriage is ok as a separation of church and state.”
As you know, I was making the case for opposing same-sex marriage within the Catholic Church. Your statistic was talking about civil marriage.
In Western Europe, large majorities of Catholics said in 2017 that they support legal same-sex marriage.
You attempted to counter What_Exit’s argument with an anecdote about a buddy who a) made a similar argument and b) was a bigot. If you were not attempting to address the argument, then I have no idea why you posted it.
It’s none of your fucking business why I posted it. What I posted is all you need concern yourself with, friend.
I’m not suggesting that at all. I’m saying that anyone (of any denomination or sect) who claims that the only reason they oppose homosexuality or SSM is because God does is the one claiming that God himself is the bigot.
Title: How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality
From the article:
So no.
Please help me understand why.
I posted two definitions.
a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life
Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group
Both require an unreasonable belief. One requires the bigot to not like other people who have different beliefs. The other requires the bigot to have prejudice or be antagonistic towards another person or group.
Please point out where the arguments I described meet any of these criteria.