# Is there a place for non-politically correct speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2018, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218 "2018-12-16T06:28:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/61 "2018-12-16T22:59:37Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > The terms I gave weren’t then and aren’t now (to those of us who understand your plantation history and culture) viewed as racial slurs. In a work environment where the only common language was pidgin, those terms enabled people to communicate and grow closer. > > “Ey, Japanee, you go work with the bukbuk. nanchu, you go help the yobo ova dea”. > > “Oh, you know, the yobo I was workin’ next to was real hard worka!” > > “That nanchu wahnine (woman) over dea, real good lookin’, I goin’ ask her out!” > > Again, these were not racial slurs. merely terms to identify the different ethnic groups in a way everyone could understand. Remember, these immigrants typically spoke no English and had no clue of the romanized form of their nationality, much less be able to pronounce it correctly. > > Also, foreign proper names, first and last, take practice to get them right. Easier to use a generic (non-derogatory term) to communicate with them until you’re familiar and comfortable enough to learn their proper name or agree upon one that both of you can pronounce and understand. Call out to Joe Say or George and see if Jose and Jorge respond. > > Believe what you want. You’re entitled to your opinion and I mine. I’ll leave you the last word if you choose. Again, why does the way some people talked (not here, not now, not us) have bearing on now, here, us? Not getting the convincingness part of your argument, only the grasping at lame straws part. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/62 "2018-12-16T23:04:13Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Believe what you want. You’re entitled to your opinion and I mine. I’ll leave you the last word if you choose. I believe your OP premise is nonsensical. If you prefer to leave it at that, so be it. However, that does not change the fact your notion is unsupportable bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/63 "2018-12-16T23:50:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As a side note, it’s strangely inconsistent that society considers “black” or “white” to be an inoffensive reference to skin color but “red” “brown” or “yellow” skin is an offensive reference. They’re all direct references to skin color. It isn’t strange at all, if you pay attention to language usage and how it means different things at different times. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/64 "2018-12-17T00:01:13Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > My opinion is that political correctness is an attempt to control the language, because when you control how people _speak_, you can control how they _think_. That strikes me as extremely scary and dangerous. But what strikes ME is the way people who want to have the freedom to insult others (who invariably have less cultural power) with impunity want to control the language because when you are the culture/gender in power and feel that everyone below you should just accept that you are going to speak in insulting and demeaning ways and there is nothing whatsoever they can do or say about it, THAT is extremely scary and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/65 "2018-12-17T00:10:54Z")
I strongly dislike political correctness. It’s a modern form of oppression and a threat to our freedom. I recognize that hate speech is not acceptable. Otherwise, people should be free to express themselves however they want. Free speech should be protected in all areas of life. That includes at work, school, on television or any place else. People should be able to express themselves without fear of public reprisal. The internet and social media is a powerful weapon that’s harmed too many people. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/66 "2018-12-17T00:13:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I strongly dislike political correctness. It’s a modern form of oppression and a threat to our freedom. > > I recognize that hate speech is not acceptable. > > Otherwise, people should be free to express themselves however they want. Free speech should be protected in all areas of life. That includes at work, school, on television or any place else. > > Without fear of public reprisal. You sound like you are completely missing the point of “freedom of speech”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/67 "2018-12-17T00:39:36Z")
Political correctness has become almost an obsession. Who can we catch this week and make them grovel for forgiveness? People search old social media posts looking for something to be offended by. A recent example is Kyler Murray,  the current Heisman Trophy winner. It only took the Internet a few hours to find some unfortunate six year old tweets. He was a young and dumb kid in middle school. He’s already sincerely apologised. > **[Heisman Trophy winner Kyler Murray apologizes for old homophobic tweets | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/09/us/kyler-murray-tweets-apology/index.html)** > > Hours after winning college football's most prestigious award, Oklahoma University quarterback Kyler Murray apologized on Sunday for using homophobic language in a series of tweets dating from 2011 and 2012. A week never goes by without some public figure apologizing to the PC crowd. I shudder to think what it must be like in college. The one place young people should be able to speak freely and be encouraged to explore new ideas. Unless, they run afoul of the pc culture. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/68 "2018-12-17T00:48:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > People should be able to express themselves without fear of public reprisal. The internet and social media is a powerful weapon that’s harmed too many people. Let’s say I go into the public square and shout as loud, “FUCK WHITE PEOPLE! MAY THEY ALL BURN IN HELL! THEY AIN’T NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF FISHY CUNTS AND SYPHYLITIC DICKS!!” Should not people be able to crowd around me and boo? If my employer were to see me, should they not have the right to fire me, especially if I’m front-facing employee and there are regular customers in the crowd? Should people not be able to record me and share that recording with their friends and family, so that those friends and family may be able to hear the message I’m so intent on spreading, and either agree or disagree? By saying there should be no public reprisals, you’re basically depriving other people of their free speech. You’re demanding a safe place where your special snowflake existence will always be validated and never challenged. You want a society where your little fee fees are protected but no one else’s are given the same courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/69 "2018-12-17T00:56:07Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It’s fairly common in old books to find terms like “Jewess” or “Negress.” > > If you accused those authors of NOT being polite, they would have thought that you were absolutely nuts. And yet if somebody used those terms today, they would be metaphorically crucified for not being PC. > > In short, PC has nothing to do with politeness. Just piling on to this argument, because I haven’t seen anyone make this specific criticism yet: You are saying that the authors in “old books” considered some language polite. And then say that they’d be metaphorically crucified for using that language today. Okay, fine. Assume that your authors are such good people that they’d never use a word they considered impolite. And “metaphorical crucifixion” could mean any negative social consequence you want, so that’s fine, too. But you’re doing an apples to oranges thing in saying that > [@](#): > > PC has nothing to do with politeness. **The speaker’s intent is not the sole thing that makes a statement “impolite;”** another key factor is the recipient’s, er, reception of that statement. (I remember being 6 or 7 years old and saying “that lady has a mustache!” That was an impolite thing to say, though I didn’t know that when I said it. I’m sure the woman was mortified – my parents sure were, and I heard about it.) As adult members of a pluralistic society\*, we can recognize that all people make mistakes and don’t always recognize how their words will be taken. But when it’s pointed out to us that “Negress” is almost always offensive, I’d hope that we can all let that word go without too much whining. \*I mean, the “pluralistic society” thing is at the heart of the problem here, right? \*\*“We” \*\*want to keep talking about women, foreigners, racial and sexual and religious minorities, and all those other people the way we’re used to talking about them when they’re not around. But they get all offended when **“we”** do that in front of them. Why do they presume bad faith on \*\*“our” \*\*part? As white male supremacy has lost its official legal status in the US, it struggles to maintain its power in our culture, including language. I hope that I’m right in thinking that it won’t make a winning comeback in either arena. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/70 "2018-12-17T00:56:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Otherwise, people should be free to express themselves however they want. Free speech should be protected in all areas of life. That includes at work, school, on television or any place else. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Colin Kaepernick exercising his free speech, and the public reaction to that? ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/71 "2018-12-17T01:02:38Z")
> [@ZurBob](#): > > I believe your OP premise is nonsensical. If you prefer to leave it at that, so be it. However, that does not change the fact your notion is unsupportable bullshit. I apologize for returning to this, but I can’t in good conscience leave the debate as my singular unsupported opinion. Below are some passages from a paper entitled: _“WE CAN LAUGH AT OURSELVES”: HAWAI‘I ETHNIC HUMOR, LOCAL IDENTITY AND THE MYTH OF MULTICULTURALISM1 Roderick N. Labrador_ I won’t comment on the thesis and conclusion of the paper and as it would take more than a few read-throughs to fully grasp. I will however include below some of the quotes the author uses in his work that I believe shows my opinion is not mine alone. “As pidgin English became the common language of plantation laborers and their families, it enabled people from different countries to communicate with each other and helped to create a new island identity for them…Speaking Hawaiian English or pidgin, the immigrants and their children were no longer only Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Puerto Rican, or Portuguese. On the plantations, pidgin English began to give its users a working class as well as a Hawaiian or “local” identity, which transcended their particular ethnic identity (Takaki 1983: 119).” Takaki, R. (1983) Pau hana: Plantation life and labor in Hawaii, 1835-1920. Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press. Takaki, R. (1983) Raising cane: The world of plantation Hawaii. New York: Chelsea House Publishers “Here in Hawaii, we laugh at ourselves more than most people do in other places. Hawaii is a chop suey nation - Portagee, Pake, Buddha Head, Sole, Yobo, Kanaka, Haole, all mixed up. Nobody is the majority here. We are all part of at least one minority group. Some of us are part of several minority groups. And we all laugh at ourselves. This is healthy (DeLima 1991: v).” DeLima, F. (1991) Frank DeLima’s joke book: Having fun with Portagees, Pakes, Buddha Heads, Buk Buks, Blallahs, Soles, Yobos, Haoles, Tidahs, Pit Bulls, and other Hawaiian minorities. Honolulu: Bess Press. “One thing each ethnic group in Hawaii had to learn was a healthy sense of humor so that they would be able to laugh at each other and not take themselves too seriously. Living on a series of small islands requires a high degree of open friendliness. Therefore, Hawaii’s people are not reluctant to poke fun at each other and at themselves using words which from the mainland standpoint seem derogatory but from the Island perspective seem descriptive or simply funny. ‘Buddhahead,’ ‘Pake,’ ‘Kanaka,’ Haole Crab,’ ‘Bok-bok,’ ‘Porogee Mouth,’ are just a small sampling of the words which ethnic groups often use in reference to themselves; these words are essential parts of the local Island culture (Ogawa 1978: 155-56).” Ogawa, D. (1978) Jan ken po: The world of Hawaii’s Japanese Americans, 2nd ed. Honolulu: University of Hawai‘i Press. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/72 "2018-12-17T01:05:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Colin Kaepernick exercising his free speech, and the public reaction to that? Kaepernick can say what he wants in interviews. I understand he’s a supporter of black lives matter. He should express that support. I’m not convinced kneeling during the anthem is the way to do it. He’s on the clock and is expected to do his job and represent the NFL. There’s so many other ways he can express his support… attend demonstrations, interviews, give money etc. He can discuss black lives matter with his teammates in the locker room. He’s working when he steps out on the field. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/73 "2018-12-17T01:13:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kaepernick can say what he wants in interviews. I understand he’s a supporter of black lives matter. He should express that support. > > I’m not convinced kneeling during the anthem is the way to do it. He’s on the clock and is expected to do his job and represent the NFL. > > There’s so many other ways he can express his support… attend demonstrations, interviews, give money etc. He can discuss black lives matter with his teammates in the locker room. > > He’s working when he steps out on the field. A) by your own remarks, you are not allowed to even say what your opinion is. B) you are also not his employer. C) by your own remarks, im not even allowed to tell you what I think of your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/74 "2018-12-17T01:22:24Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Kaepernick can say what he wants in interviews. I understand he’s a supporter of black lives matter. He should express that support. > > I’m not convinced kneeling during the anthem is the way to do it. He’s on the clock and is expected to do his job and represent the NFL. > > There’s so many other ways he can express his support… attend demonstrations, interviews, give money etc. He can discuss black lives matter with his teammates in the locker room. > > He’s working when he steps out on the field. What did you say? > [@](#): > > Free speech should be protected in all areas of life. That includes at work ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/75 "2018-12-17T01:48:23Z")
I understand we need dialogue and the opportunity to disagree with someone. It’s the pack mentality that bothers me. That a public figure says something and there’s a national out cry of indignation. Social media has created unique problems and I’m not sure what can be done. People should discuss what they hear people say. How can we avoid that turning into mob rule? The loudest and most shrill voices get their way? I don’t have the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/76 "2018-12-17T01:56:49Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > The only beef I have with political correctness is when it tries to blot out the past. I’d like to watch _Song of the South_ but I can’t access it. I’d like to see the rich history of black Hollywood movies from the days of segregated theaters, but I don’t see that on TCM. I’d like to judge Amos and Andy for myself, but they were only on television as a special for Black History Month once. The Lyric Opera will probably never stage Scott Joplin’s Treemonisha. > > It’s part of history, and it’s sad to see it suppressed because some people can’t bear to look back. That’s an issue of copyrights. Disney owns _Song of the South_ and they’ve decided to withdraw it from the market. Nobody made them do it. Go on YouTube right now and you can watch _All This and Rabbit Stew_, _Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs_, _Scrub Me Mamma with a Boogie Beat_, or _Uncle Tom’s Crabbin_. Which demonstrates that racist cartoons from the past aren’t banned. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/77 "2018-12-17T02:15:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The thing is, it’s a moving target, and people get sick of having to keep abreast of what the “acceptable” term is. You have to learn to live with the fact that the world changes. And when the changes are positive ones, it’s called progress. I remember seeing _Crocodile Dundee_ in the theater. [This scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6fgPX3NjyA) wasn’t controversial at the time; most people just thought it was a funny joke. But you watch it now and you see a room full of people, led by the hero of the movie, laughing at a transgendered woman who got caught when she “pretended” to be a woman. I laughed at that joke in 1986 and I see it as offensive in 2018. Attitudes change. I can sympathize with somebody who fell into a coma in 1986 and woke up in 2018 and is now being told that his views about transgendered people are offensive. But no excuses for anyone who was awake during those thirty years. You had plenty of time to adjust. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/78 "2018-12-17T04:24:30Z")
PC is an early form of Orwellian thought control. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/79 "2018-12-17T04:31:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Let’s say I go into the public square and shout as loud, “FUCK WHITE PEOPLE! MAY THEY ALL BURN IN HELL! THEY AIN’T NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF FISHY CUNTS AND SYPHYLITIC DICKS!!” > > Should not people be able to crowd around me and boo? > > If my employer were to see me, should they not have the right to fire me, especially if I’m front-facing employee and there are regular customers in the crowd? > > Should people not be able to record me and share that recording with their friends and family, so that those friends and family may be able to hear the message I’m so intent on spreading, and either agree or disagree? > > By saying there should be no public reprisals, you’re basically depriving other people of their free speech. You’re demanding a safe place where your special snowflake existence will always be validated and never challenged. You want a society where your little fee fees are protected but no one else’s are given the same courtesy. I say say what you wish. It’d be better for everyone around if people weren’t looking to be outraged. Some ridiculous people think it’s acceptable to be unemployable because of a 5 second rant. That’s really not good for society. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218/80 "2018-12-17T04:39:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Not moderating] > > Actually, it’s just a synonym for “politeness”. I’m not sure why it ends up being the same people who complain about political correctness who also complain about how nobody is polite any more. It’s not a synonym for politeness; the terms have significantly different meanings. Politeness is much more power neutral. That’s not to say PC is inherently bad, it just that location of one’s position and power will have an effect on the interpretation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-place-for-non-politically-correct-speech/826218.md?page=5)