# Is there a racial disparity in police shootings in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 6, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150 "2020-06-06T12:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/21 "2020-06-09T14:39:55Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I mean , it kinda does since that question entered my mind. No comment on the rest of my post? It’s ridiculous. The vast majority of “the black community” are peaceful and law-abiding, and always have been. The mistreatment of black people in 1850 was not the fault of “the black community”; it wasn’t in 1900, it wasn’t in 1950, and it’s not now. Now isn’t some special magical time in which black people are suddenly bad and dishonest in describing their experiences with law enforcement. Black people are being mistreated by American institutions, and that shit needs to stop. Trying to distract to other issues is rightly criticized as harmful to these efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/22 "2020-06-09T16:10:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s ridiculous. The vast majority of “the black community” are peaceful and law-abiding, and always have been. The mistreatment of black people in 1850 was not the fault of “the black community”; it wasn’t in 1900, it wasn’t in 1950, and it’s not now. Now isn’t some special magical time in which black people are suddenly bad and dishonest in describing their experiences with law enforcement. Black people are being mistreated by American institutions, and that shit needs to stop. Trying to distract to other issues is rightly criticized as harmful to these efforts. Yes, they are. And so are the vast majority of the police force? No one, not a single person is arguing any differently than what you state, when black people are mistreated (both law abiding and criminal) then justice needs to be enforced. The mistreatment is not their fault, AT ALL. But the black community holding up criminals as martyrs than have done no wrong, ARE the fault of the black community. George Floyd was a criminal/FULL STOP He was detained and killed because of that. Did he deserve to die for his crime? Of course not, and that is being rectified in the courts, as it should be. I’m not distracting from anything, other than providing truthful statements of fact. Black white yellow orange and green should all be treated equally, and for the vast majority of the time, they are. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/23 "2020-06-09T16:15:37Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Yes, they are. And so are the vast majority of the police force? AFAICT, most police officers abide by the “blue wall” culture, and thus deliberately avoid anything which might hold their fellow officers accountable for all but the most egregious violations (if even those). > [@](#): > > But the black community holding up criminals as martyrs than have done no wrong, ARE the fault of the black community. > > George Floyd was a criminal/FULL STOP > He was detained and killed because of that. Bullshit. Unless you’re saying (and have evidence) that the cops targeted Floyd for death due to his criminal record. If you’re not saying this, then this doesn’t make any sense at all (and is personally abhorrent to me as it places some of the blame for being killed on Floyd). > [@](#): > > I’m not distracting from anything, other than providing truthful statements of fact. > > Black white yellow orange and green should all be treated equally, and for the vast majority of the time, they are. This is a statement of faith, and I don’t hold to this particular faith. Based on the data I’ve seen, and based on the experiences of the black people among my family and friends, black people face obstacles due to their race pretty much every day, in pretty much every aspect of their lives. Some are tiny, but still real, and some are very significant. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/24 "2020-06-09T16:33:39Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Until the black community starts policing their own communities and holding their bad apples accountable, how can they expect ANYONE else (police, white folks, whomever the blame falls on these days) to? This is a weak argument. Most crime is internal to communities, so black people kill other black people, white people kill other white people (outside of hate crimes), and so on. When a white person shoots up a school, mall, or concert venue, is the message that white lives do not matter? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/25 "2020-06-09T16:44:28Z")
If you want to end civilian black-on-black violence, then the necessary first step is to eliminate police-on-black violence. As it is right now, the urban black community has learned, for the most part correctly, that police are dangerous, and that getting the police involved, no matter how bad the situation is, is likely to make it even worse. Well, in a community like that, what do you suppose is the response when one member of the community has a grievance against another member? They can’t settle that grievance through the justice system, and so they need other structures for settling grievances. You end up with what’s euphemistically called in the South a “culture of honor”: You settle grievances yourself. And when it’s a grievance you can’t settle yourself, you band together with family, or if you don’t have enough family to settle it, you band together with others in an extended surrogate family. The net result of which is gang warfare, which results in people dying. The solution is for there to exist a neutral band, who can act on behalf of all who have been wronged, regardless of family or affiliation, who will serve and protect them, without escalation. That band is supposed to exist already. It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/26 "2020-06-09T16:57:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If you want to end civilian black-on-black violence, then the necessary first step is to eliminate police-on-black violence. > > As it is right now, the urban black community has learned, for the most part correctly, that police are dangerous, and that getting the police involved, no matter how bad the situation is, is likely to make it even worse. Well, in a community like that, what do you suppose is the response when one member of the community has a grievance against another member? They can’t settle that grievance through the justice system, and so they need other structures for settling grievances. You end up with what’s euphemistically called in the South a “culture of honor”: You settle grievances yourself. And when it’s a grievance you can’t settle yourself, you band together with family, or if you don’t have enough family to settle it, you band together with others in an extended surrogate family. The net result of which is gang warfare, which results in people dying. > > The solution is for there to exist a neutral band, who can act on behalf of all who have been wronged, regardless of family or affiliation, who will serve and protect them, without escalation. That band is supposed to exist already. It doesn’t. Does not compute. It sounds to me like an excuse. Police violence towards black people is NOT disproportionate. Police violence towards criminal is disproportionate. Let’s assume for a moment that you are correct. I don’t have problem one with police forces across the nation disbanding, reforming or defunding if the end goal is to provide equal protection under the law. What I think the end game of some here is, is to have a proportionate amount of people according to race, in jail/arrested etc. That is not equality of opportunity, that is equality of outcome. Why does the black community (Black Lives Matter) hold up to be martyred , a criminal? Are there no other black people in recent history that deserve the protection that could be used as the face of this change? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/27 "2020-06-09T16:58:52Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > This is a weak argument. Most crime is internal to communities, so black people kill other black people, white people kill other white people (outside of hate crimes), and so on. When a white person shoots up a school, mall, or concert venue, is the message that white lives do not matter? Yes, it is. And communities do not hold up a white dude that shoots up a school as the face of a white lives matter movement… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/28 "2020-06-09T17:03:40Z")
**Kearsen1** , you yourself said that the black community needs to self-police. This is what that looks like. If they were getting policed by the actual, you know, police, they wouldn’t need to do it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/29 "2020-06-09T17:04:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > AFAICT, most police officers abide by the “blue wall” culture, and thus deliberately avoid anything which might hold their fellow officers accountable for all but the most egregious violations (if even those). > > Bullshit. Unless you’re saying (and have evidence) that the cops targeted Floyd for death due to his criminal record. If you’re not saying this, then this doesn’t make any sense at all (and is personally abhorrent to me as it places some of the blame for being killed on Floyd). > > This is a statement of faith, and I don’t hold to this particular faith. Based on the data I’ve seen, and based on the experiences of the black people among my family and friends, black people face obstacles due to their race pretty much every day, in pretty much every aspect of their lives. Some are tiny, but still real, and some are very significant. He was detained for criminal activity/ full stop He was killed due to an overzealous, incompetent, angry policeman that deserves his just punishment, along with the others that stood by and watched. He is getting that. If there are things that need doing to police forces, do them. But lumping in all the good cops with the bad cops is a bad move. Much like lumping all teachers who don’t give a shit about their students with the good ones. Start with: 1. What makes this blue wall so hard to pierce? The UNION 2. Disband the union, disband the force, do what you feel like you need to do. You have all the support in the world right now, literally everyone believes that George Floyd was unjustly killed But holding him up as some pristine upstanding citizen that proves that black people are being unjustly targeted is NOT the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/30 "2020-06-09T17:09:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **Kearsen1** , you yourself said that the black community needs to self-police. This is what that looks like. If they were getting policed by the actual, you know, police, they wouldn’t need to do it themselves. Hold up, if black people are disproportionally in jail, disproportionally targeted for criminal activity, HOW then does it follow that the police aren’t there for and IN the black community? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/31 "2020-06-09T17:33:49Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Does not compute. It sounds to me like an excuse. Well, it’s not. Don’t know what else to tell you there. Read up on the Scotch Borderers or the old South or West for more about cultures of honor and their violence inherent to them. > [@](#): > > Police violence towards black people is NOT disproportionate. Police violence towards criminal is disproportionate. Black people consistently report much higher levels of police misconduct directed at themselves and people they know. So I’ll need to see some evidence for this claim. Have you read the DOJ report on Ferguson? > [@](#): > > Let’s assume for a moment that you are correct. I don’t have problem one with police forces across the nation disbanding, reforming or defunding if the end goal is to provide equal protection under the law. > > What I think the end game of some here is, is to have a proportionate amount of people according to race, in jail/arrested etc. > > That is not equality of opportunity, that is equality of outcome. How can equal treatment of all races (and classes) by the police _not_ be an example of equality of opportunity? Have you seen anyone advocating for racial arrest quotas, or have you seem them advocated for fair treatment? > [@](#): > > Why does the black community (Black Lives Matter) hold up to be martyred , a criminal? Are there no other black people in recent history that deserve the protection that could be used as the face of this change? Because he’s the one who was murdered on camera? And most people don’t think of criminals as not having the right to live? I mean, think about what you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/32 "2020-06-09T18:03:30Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Well, it’s not. Don’t know what else to tell you there. Read up on the Scotch Borderers or the old South or West for more about cultures of honor and their violence inherent to them. > > Black people consistently report much higher levels of police misconduct directed at themselves and people they know. So I’ll need to see some evidence for this claim. > > Have you read the DOJ report on Ferguson? > > How can equal treatment of all races (and classes) by the police _not_ be an example of equality of opportunity? Have you seen anyone advocating for racial arrest quotas, or have you seem them advocated for fair treatment? > For the record, I have 2 nieces that are black and I don’t worry one iota about them being targeted by police more. > Because he’s the one who was murdered on camera? And most people don’t think of criminals as not having the right to live? I mean, think about what you’re saying here. First off, I have said unequivocally, many times in this thread that he did not deserve to die, but are you listening to the media. They make him out to be a model citizen, why do you think that is? As far as equality of opportunity goes, no arrest quotas. I am referring to policing the criminal behavior. And so far the data is in, black people commit more crimes per capita than any other “race” so yes they are targeted more by police. Water is wet. What people really seem to want is for black people to not be targeted more, well my answer is to get them to stop committing more crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/33 "2020-06-09T18:21:11Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > First off, I have said unequivocally, many times in this thread that he did not deserve to die, but are you listening to the media. They make him out to be a model citizen, why do you think that is? All the coverage I’ve seen is focused on his murder, and the ensuing protests. This is because those are the salient points. Notably, neither one has anything to do with Floyd’s past. Are you seeing media coverage claiming Floyd never committed a crime in his life? If so, where? > [@](#): > > As far as equality of opportunity goes, no arrest quotas. I am referring to policing the criminal behavior. And so far the data is in, black people commit more crimes per capita than any other “race” so yes they are targeted more by police. > > Water is wet. What people really seem to want is for black people to not be targeted more, well my answer is to get them to stop committing more crimes. Do you have any interest in addressing the root causes of these problems, which are many and varied? If equality of opportunity is what you actually want, that’s where it starts. Fair and just policing - which includes not preying on the black community disproportionately to drum up fines and arrests - is just one piece of the puzzle, but it’s an important one. I’d also urge you to research the War on Drugs and its grossly disproportionate impact on black communities, and the Ferguson report for how a police force can in effect manufacture crimes to generate revenue. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/34 "2020-06-09T18:26:12Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > 1. What makes this blue wall so hard to pierce? The UNION I am pretty skeptical that this is sufficient. I’m sure that weakening police unions will have some positive effect on police brutality, and I’m in favor of doing so, but the idea that it’s the lynchpin or keystone that’s protecting police is far-fetched, and I think seized upon by people who are already inclined to weaken unions in general. 1. If you look at other organizations that exerted power through the use of violence and protected their own by a code of omertà, they were not primarily protected by unions. 2. In my opinion, the primary problem with bad cops is not that they aren’t _fired_ for assault and murder, it’s that they aren’t _prosecuted and convicted_. 3. No other union asks for or receives the sorts of immunity from prosecution that police unions routinely do. Police unions ask for absurd immunity from prosecution and politicians deliver it because the culture and politics of policing are fundamentally corrupt. > [@](#): > > And so far the data is in, black people commit more crimes per capita than any other “race” so yes they are targeted more by police. The data are fundamentally bullshit for reasons that have been pointed out by several in this thread. Black crime is detected and punished at much higher rates because they’re constantly hassled by the police, and black communities have to resort to extra-judicial conflict resolution because the police are not neutral, fair, or trusted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/35 "2020-06-09T19:26:06Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > He was detained for criminal activity/ full stop Allegedly. Why would you trust these negligent (or worse) cops? Who knows what he was doing. He may have unknowingly used a counterfeit bill he got in change, for all we know. > [@](#): > > But holding him up as some pristine upstanding citizen that proves that black people are being unjustly targeted is NOT the right thing. He’s being held up as someone who did not deserve death. That’s entirely appropriate. We shouldn’t mourn less for someone unjustly killed because they may have made mistakes in the past. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > First off, I have said unequivocally, many times in this thread that he did not deserve to die, but are you listening to the media. They make him out to be a model citizen, why do you think that is? > > As far as equality of opportunity goes, no arrest quotas. I am referring to policing the criminal behavior. And so far the data is in, black people commit more crimes per capita than any other “race” so yes they are targeted more by police. > > Water is wet. What people really seem to want is for black people to not be targeted more, well my answer is to get them to stop committing more crimes. According to the data reported by these various law enforcement agencies, many of whom could be crippled by systemic racism. Have you read the Ferguson report? And even if these statistics are pure and accurate, that doesn’t justify rates of mistreatment that are far, far higher than any disparities in crime statistics. Literally half of black Americans report that they, personally, have been mistreated by police. Only about 3% of white people do. But the thing is, cops have always targeted black people more than white people. Usually much, much more – not just a bit more. In 1850, law enforcement was incredibly brutal to black Americans, wholly unjustly. Same in 1900. Same in 1930, and 1950, and 1975. Now isn’t special. I’m sure there were always people insisting that this was justified because black people were supposedly more dangerous. But it was total bullshit then. It’s probably still bullshit. At the very least, I’m not just going to accept that the status quo of black people being treated like shit just so happens to be justified now, when for all of American history it was entirely unjustified. This is all just part of history. In American history, cops treated black people with brutality, terror, and barbarity. Things are better in some ways, but it seems beyond credibility to me that that continual brutality and violence just so happens to be justified and reasonable now, when for 200 years it was based on white supremacism and racism, and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/36 "2020-06-09T19:39:11Z")
George Floyd made mistakes in the past, but he was held accountable for those mistakes and served his time. Everyone that knew him says he had turned his life around and that he was living a law-abiding life. [He even recorded a video encouraging young people to not resort to gun violence.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8364165/Heartbreaking-video-emerges-George-Floyd-46-encouraging-young-people-gun-violence.html) It is sickening that people want to drag up his past to justify his murder. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/37 "2020-06-09T21:28:28Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > George Floyd made mistakes in the past, but he was held accountable for those mistakes and served his time. Everyone that knew him says he had turned his life around and that he was living a law-abiding life. [He even recorded a video encouraging young people to not resort to gun violence.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8364165/Heartbreaking-video-emerges-George-Floyd-46-encouraging-young-people-gun-violence.html) > > It is sickening that people want to drag up his past to justify his murder. Slandering the dead is not a new tactic. They (those insistent that there’s nothing wrong beyond a few bad apples) did it against Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, even 12-year-old Tamir Rice, and it’s no surprise that they’re trying it against George Floyd. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/38 "2020-06-09T22:06:12Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do we even know whether black men are more likely than white men to commit violent crimes, as opposed to being more likely to be arrested, prosecuted, and/or convicted of violent crimes? Poor people are more likely to commit crimes. Due to centuries of racial injustice, minorities (Blacks and Hispanics) are more often poor. They also often live in Ghettoes, and there arent many ways out of a ghetto. Certainly there could be some racial injustice in the fact the blacks commit disproportionately more crimes, but it is primarily the income issue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/39 "2020-06-09T22:20:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Black civilians who kill other black people go to prison. Police officers who kill black people don’t. I… Police officers who kill white people dont, either. Mostly becuase there is almost never a real motive or premeditation, and there is usually _some_ cause- even if that cause may not be enough to justify a death\*. And juries- even mixed race juries- tend to give a cop the benefit of the doubt. The issue of police killings are too complicated to assume the simplistic answer that they are racial or racist. Black officers also kill black men. I dont think any police killings are “Hmm, there’s a black man, I hate blacks, I should shoot him down.”- it’s more like some background hidden racism leads to more fear and anger, leading to a trigger being pulled when it isnt really necessary. - I remember one where a black man wrested a nightstick from a co, and was then shot. Was there\* some\* justification? Sure. But was it really enough to kill him? :dubious: Even in the Chauvin case, there was\* some\* justification for wrestling him to the ground and subduing him. But it was clear that Chauvin out and out killed him for no good reason. If Floyd hadnt died or wasnt badly hurt, if they got off him in time- possibly no complaint would have been upheld. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150/40 "2020-06-10T02:03:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Poor people are more likely to commit crimes. Due to centuries of racial injustice, minorities (Blacks and Hispanics) are more often poor. They also often live in Ghettoes, and there arent many ways out of a ghetto. > > Certainly there could be some racial injustice in the fact the blacks commit disproportionately more crimes, but it is primarily the income issue. I agree that poverty is very likely also an issue; but that’s not the issue I was addressing. The issue I was addressing was, is it actually a fact that blacks commit disproportionately more crimes? Consider: Some people who do commit crimes don’t get arrested for them. Some people who do commit crimes, even if they get arrested, don’t get prosecuted for them. Some people who do commit crimes, even if they get prosecuted, don’t get convicted for them. Some people who don’t commit a crime get arrested for one anyway. Some people who don’t commit a crime get prosecuted for one anyway. Some people who don’t commit a crime get convicted for one anyway. If bias, conscious or unconscious, including choices of what to police, causes more white people than black people among those who do commit crimes to wind up in one of the first three categories; and/or causes more black people than white people among those who don’t commit crimes to wind up in one of the second three categories; (or, of course, vice versa): then the ratio of black to white people in the statistics of people convicted for crimes isn’t going to be the same as the ratio of black to white people among those who actually commit crimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-racial-disparity-in-police-shootings-in-america/855150.md?page=3)