# Is there a Readers' Digest Version on the Lance Armstrong Doping? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542 "2012-10-22T16:54:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/1 "2012-10-22T16:54:13Z")
What did he do? How did he do it? And what took him so long to get caught ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/2 "2012-10-22T17:17:18Z")
I wouldn’t mind reading such a piece myself. For someone who hasn’t really been following this saga it’s all a little confusing. How, for instance, does someone get stripped of all their titles for doping without failing a single dope test? If it’s on the testimony of others who have failed tests isn’t that a little unsafe? These are the sort of questions I’d like to see covered. Armstrong 101, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/3 "2012-10-22T17:21:33Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > How, for instance, does someone get stripped of all their titles for doping without failing a single dope test? He decided not to defend himself against the allegations. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/4 "2012-10-22T17:24:06Z")
> **[Highlights of the Armstrong report | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/10/10/sport/armstrong-report-highlights/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)** > > Key points of Wednesday’s U.S. Anti-Doping Agency report on Lance Armstrong: seems to be the condensd version of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/5 "2012-10-22T17:28:53Z")
Thanks for the information. While I think he is probably guilty the “overwhelming” evidence is not impressive at all. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/6 "2012-10-22T17:29:44Z")
There’s also the Wikipedia article: [Lance\_Armstrong#History\_of\_allegations\_of\_doping](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong#History_of_allegations_of_doping) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/7 "2012-10-22T17:44:32Z")
> [@dauerbach](#): > > Thanks for the information. While I think he is probably guilty the “overwhelming” evidence is not impressive at all. One key thing to realize is that we are not talking law and courts here, at least for the most part. We are talking rules and sports. When a referee calls a ball out in tennis, or an umpire calls a runner safe at home, that’s a matter of the rules of the sport being applied by the people in charge of making those decisions. There’s no appeal to a higher authority. Similarly, there are rules in cycling, and the people responsible for making sure those rules are followed have made a decision. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/8 "2012-10-22T18:44:58Z")
There are a number of Armstrong apologists that seem to believe that witness testimony is not proof and that the only such proof is that of urine blood samples. They are quite wrong, some of those apologists say its all circumstantial, but again they are mistaken. If the witnesses are credible enough, and if the evidence forms a logical pattern and is consistent, then its plenty enough. Such evidence has been enough to send people to the chair, even after multiple appeals. The evidence is damning, it goes across colleagues who report different aspects but the whole hangs together to form a very comprehensive case. Add to this, Armstrong actually did test positive twice but was able to dodge one with a backdated medical prescription, and then there were six samples that were tested years after the event, when valid tests finally became available, so the fact is, Armstrong has had 8 samples test positive. Probably really doesn’t come into it, he is a guilty as sin itself. Other apologists say that all the other riders were doing it, yes, but he was one of the big players, he was the one who played the leading part in imposing it on his team mates and he was the one that was instrumental in ending the cycling career of Christophe Basson, who had spoken out against doping. Others might say, well its just sport, however it isn’t - we look at the East German ‘sports teams’ and that is the logical outcome of allowing Armstrong and his ilk off the hook. Armstrong apologists move from one position to another, from denial of positive tests down to ‘everybody was at it’ down to , ‘its not really all that important anyway’. I can understand it, a person who is an icon, someone you believe in, has been shown not only to be a cheat, but also a bully, liar, and pretty much everything against all the positives he used to be portrayed as being - its not an easy message to take. If you think it doesn’t matter in a wider sense, well think about those who take stimulants to assist them in exams, and other drugs to assist in concentrating when it is not medically necessary. Once you go don that road you allow a tacit approval ans without understanding the longer term effects on a wider population. Meantime, cycling has taken some damage, but I wonder what would happen in other sports if we had blood testing, and biological passports - I think we would find the picture is as bad elsewhere. In other words, imagine the very worst scenario in any other sport as regards doping, its almost certainly already happened but has not been uncovered. Drug testing should not be in the remit if any sporting body, nor should the investigation. The independence is not there and commercial interests will always be a prime concern of the sporting body - it simply would not do to have your icons brought down, better to sweep it away quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/9 "2012-10-22T18:48:06Z")
Moved to the Game Room. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/10 "2012-10-22T18:56:10Z")
Remember some other matters that are a measure of the man, Floyd Landis was caught out doping and agreed to tell all - Armstrong made damn sure that Landis came under huge pressure accusing him of being alcoholic and exaggerating of his mental issues in order to destroy his credibility - Armstrong is the sort of person that will use any personal flaws as a point to attack. He tried it with his masseuse Emily O’Reilly by accusing her of being an alcoholic and a prostitute - he slandered her as part of a defamation lawsuit he took out against her, all the while his reputation was untarnished and she was not given the opportunity to reply in kind. The threats he made to Tyler Hamilton include having him followed and making sure he knew it, in the hope he too would have a mental breakdown , these are quite startling. Real icon there Armstrong eh? ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/11 "2012-10-22T19:18:02Z")
Read Tyler Hamilton’s book or the USADA report. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/12 "2012-10-22T19:37:38Z")
**Boo Boo Foo’s** posts in the Armstrong thread are probably the best explanation I’ve seen anywhere. First the [background why](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15582495&postcount=226)it’s such a big deal. Then [how Armstrong and the USPS team cheated](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15582824&postcount=230). ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/13 "2012-10-22T19:39:05Z")
Oh and for completeness here’s Boo Boo Foo’s take on how [big a deal EPO was in cycling](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15610243&postcount=309) - huge. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/14 "2012-10-22T20:18:25Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Floyd Landis was caught out doping and agreed to tell all Not to defend Armstrong, although I used to be a supporter but can’t now in light of the evidence. Landis raised a lot of money from friends and supporters to defend himself claiming he was completely innocent, then finally caved and admitted it all. No one got their money back, and I think that was a pretty sleazy. But that has nothing to do with LA’s loathsome behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/15 "2012-10-22T20:19:37Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > There are a number of Armstrong apologists that seem to believe that witness testimony is not proof and that the only such proof is that of urine blood samples. > > They are quite wrong, some of those apologists say its all circumstantial, but again they are mistaken. > > If the witnesses are credible enough, and if the evidence forms a logical pattern and is consistent, then its plenty enough. Such evidence has been enough to send people to the chair, even after multiple appeals. > > The evidence is damning, it goes across colleagues who report different aspects but the whole hangs together to form a very comprehensive case. Add to this, Armstrong actually did test positive twice but was able to dodge one with a backdated medical prescription, and then there were six samples that were tested years after the event, when valid tests finally became available, so the fact is, Armstrong has had 8 samples test positive.. Only if there is a body. It’s nigh impossible to send someone to the chair if there is no evidence that a crime was committed in the first place. Those other six samples were farcical. The other two were from a salve for saddle sores. BFD. Here’s my opinion. Lance did nothing illegal. BUT, he had scads of high priced medical and doping experts, who carefully studied the rules and applied ‘legal by the wording if not be the intent” treatments to make lance go faster, further. All 100% legal under the rules as actually written. He took advantage of new tech (no rules on it yet) , loopholes and ambiguities. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/16 "2012-10-22T20:55:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Only if there is a body This is a misapplication of a misquote, and that goes right back a long time to a particular murder case where the killer had thought that a conviction could not be obtained without a physical body - a corpse. Problem was that he misunderstood what was meant by the ‘body’,. This was not a body in the literal sense of the word, but rather the body was the body - or construction - of a particular case of evidence. Having seen you post on other matters, I rather expect somewhat better of you than this, another little illusion of mine gone. In this situation, there is indeed a considerable body of evidence, from witness statements, to actual tests, through motive and mechanism. This has been enough to convict a person of murder at the highest levels of proof that a state can require. As for doing nothing illegal - if by that you mean statute law well that’s just a way of weaselling around the fact that he didn’t break the law thus he cannot be guilty? - well that depends upon your use of the term law, in the sense of breaking the rules of the governing body of cycling, oh yes he certainly did break them.It was not a question of finessing between implied meanings or escaping through the cracks, this was cold, hard, systematic cheating and he was caught. The rules of sports governing bodies are not statute law. There might be a legal case for some sort of fraud or deception charge but trying to unwind the jurisdiction would not be easy. The salve for saddle soreness was used to backdate a prescription for cortisoids, read through Emily O’ Hamilton’s book to get the specifics. Armstrong was tested positive and used an altered prescription to justify the presence of it in his sample. I can see at least two of the stages of denial that the typical denier exhibits in your post, I assume that you will complete the remainder by positing that, its only cycling, it doesn’t really matter, and anyway look at all the good he has done. Life is much more complex than someone being 100% good or bad. Being bad in one area does not undo the good that has been done, or vice versa. Armstrong has made a positive contribution, he has also made negatives - and you can’t try to balance them in some form of good behaviour double entry book keeping exercise, it is what it is, he is a bully, and he is charismatic, he has benefited many many people, he has also shamed himself and others and coerced others into behaving in unacceptable manners. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/17 "2012-10-22T21:17:04Z")
Here are a few excerpts from the [report (.pdf):](http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf) > [@](#): > > [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]Seven (7) eyewitnesses from the 1998 U.S. Postal Service cycling team have provided testimony to USADA regarding doping on the team in 1998.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]30 [/SIZE][/FONT]USADA also received testimony from two (2) additional witnesses, Italian professional cyclist Filippo Simeoni and Betsy Andreu, regarding events they witnessed in 1998 that were relevant to USADA’s investigation. [/FONT] > [@](#): > > [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]In 1998 Jonny Weltz was the team director and Pedro Celaya the principal team doctor for the U.S. Postal Service Cycling Team. Riders on the team were using performance enhancing substances including EPO, testosterone, human growth hormone and cortisone as [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]confirmed by team employee Emma O’Reilly,[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]31 [/SIZE][/FONT]and riders Frankie Andreu,[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]32 [/SIZE][/FONT]Tyler Hamilton,[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]33 [/SIZE][/FONT]George Hincapie[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]34 [/SIZE][/FONT]and Jonathan Vaughters.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]35 [/SIZE][/FONT]The staff was clearly part of the doping operation.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]36 [/SIZE][/FONT]Frequently these drugs were administered by Dr. Celaya.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]37 [/SIZE][/FONT]Jonathan Vaughters recalls that Dr. Celaya would openly pass out EPO to team members.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]38 [/SIZE][/FONT]Emma O’Reilly recalls being asked to transport testosterone by a fellow team employee.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]39 [/SIZE][/FONT]Armstrong also required [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]O’Reilly to dispose of used syringes following the Tour of the Netherlands.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]40 [/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT] [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2] > [@](#): > > [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2]One evening while Vaugthers was in Armstrong’s room borrowing Armstrong’s laptop Armstrong injected himself in front of Vaughters with a syringe used for EPO injections, saying [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]“[n]ow that you are doing EPO too, you can’t go write a book about it.”[SIZE=1][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]50 [/SIZE][/FONT]From that point forward Armstrong was open with Vaughters about Armstrong’s use of EPO.[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1]51 [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=1][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2] > [@](#): > > [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2]Later, at the World Championships at Valkenberg in the Netherlands the U.S. riders arrived at their tent near the start of the race to find that Armstrong had asked his wife Kristin to wrap cortisone tablets in tin foil for him and his teammates. Kristin obliged Armstrong’s request by wrapping the pills and handing them to the riders.[SIZE=1]55 One of the riders remarked, “Lance’s wife is rolling joints.”56 [/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2] > [@](#): > > [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2]Armstrong, Vande Velde, Vaughters and Celaya stayed at a bed and breakfast for the 1998 World Championships.[SIZE=1]57 Their bedrooms opened into a common area.58 One morning a UCI drug tester appeared and started setting up in the common area.59 This prompted Dr. Celaya to go outside to the car and retrieve a liter of saline which he put under his rain coat and smuggled right past the UCI tester and into Armstrong’s bedroom.60 Celaya closed the bedroom door and administered the saline to Armstrong to lower his hematocrit, without alerting the UCI tester to their activities.61 Vaughters recalled that he and Dr. Celaya later “had a good laugh about how he had been able to smuggle in saline and administer it to Lance essentially under the UCI inspector’s nose.”62 [/SIZE][/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT] > [@](#): > > [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2]On the first day of the Tour Lance seized the yellow jersey by winning the prologue. A few days later the USPS team was notified that Armstrong had had a corticosteroid positive.[SIZE=1]128 According to those who were there, Armstrong did not have a medical authorization at the timeto use cortisone and the positive drug test result set off a scramble. Tyler Hamilton remembers, “a great deal of swearing from Lance and Johan, and Dr. del Moral repeating, ‘¡Qué lío!’”129 Tyler said, the “general understanding was that they were scrambling to come up with something [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT][SIZE=2][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]because Lance had used cortisone without medical authorization.”[SIZE=1]130 Emma O’Reilly was in the room giving Armstrong a massage when Armstrong and team officials fabricated a story to cover the positive test.131 Armstrong and the team officials agreed to have Dr. del Moral backdate a prescription for cortisone cream for Armstrong which they would claim had been prescribed in advance of the Tour to treat a saddle sore. O’Reilly understood from Armstrong, however, that the positive had not come from a topical cream but had really come about from a cortisone injection Armstrong received around the time of the Route du Sud a few weeks earlier.132 After the meeting between Armstrong and the team officials concluded, Armstrong told O’Reilly, “Now, Emma, you know enough to bring me down."133 [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]It goes on and on. Armstrong used EPO and steroids, he covered it up, and he forced his teammates to participate.[/FONT] * * * Something is going goofy with the coding. I keep getting inserted quote tag breaks and weird spacing. I don’t know if it is an artifact from the copy/paste from the pdf, or what, but it’s weird. I’ve deleted the same quote breaks three times now and they still pop up in the edit window while I’m previewing the post. Hopefully this all works right. All the little numbers in the quotes are footnote numbers in the original document.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT] ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/18 "2012-10-23T04:00:01Z")
As someone who would probably be classified as a denialist, I have something to say. My question then becomes why the hell no one brought up the cortisone thing when I talked about how I didn’t think he was cheating before. Yeah, using cortisone is cheating. Having too high hemocrit levels that still pass the test, that’s not cheating. When you put in a hard limit on something, you are flat out saying that anything below that hard limit is acceptable. That’s what I objected to before. Just because I think that he may still be the best, as I think all of the top cyclists probably cheat, doesn’t mean I don’t think that actual cheating should be punished. Just not this hemocrit nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/19 "2012-10-23T17:24:21Z")
How many times does this need repeating, its not ust that he cheated when everyone else was doing it, the fact is, he was one of the main engines of the doping machine. He is not some little character in the end credits, he is the headline act. As for hemocrit nonsense - please explain how it is nonsense, please inform us all of your specific knowledge and qualifications that lead to to a conclusion that is not held by USADA, UCI and all the doping agencies concerned, how is it that you seem to have an opinion that is better informed than all those agencies and people\> ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542/20 "2012-10-23T17:33:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My question then becomes why the hell no one brought up the cortisone thing when I talked about how I didn’t think he was cheating before. I don’t know, I wasn’t participating before, and I learned everything from this thread and the link to the report. > [@](#): > > Having too high hemocrit levels that still pass the test, that’s not cheating. When you put in a hard limit on something, you are flat out saying that anything below that hard limit is acceptable. That’s what I objected to before. The rules state you cannot artificially inflate hematocrit by taking blood transfusions, nor can you take products that make your body produce more red blood cells. The actual numerical limit is also a rule, but it is not the only rule. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-readers-digest-version-on-the-lance-armstrong-doping/638542.md?page=2)