# Is There a Recognized Scale of Musical Talent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305 "2012-01-22T14:39:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/1 "2012-01-22T14:39:30Z")
Just like in chess one can be a Master, Grand Master, International Grand Master, etc.; or in martial arts one can be a 2nd Dan, 3rd Dan, etc.; does the music community have a _scale_, so to speak (see what I did there), of how good musicians are? Like, the first violinist in the Philadelphia Symphony is a _bene_, the first violinist in the San Francisco Philharmonic is a _grandioso_, and the first violinist at the London Symphony is a _supremo_? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/2 "2012-01-22T14:54:19Z")
No, probably because chess and martial arts are competitive, and there can be some sort of objective criteria applied (although I don’t know how it is actually done in either discipline). In martial arts you take tests that are judged by an expert, at least up to some level. In music there are no types of certification tests or assessments that are industry standard. Certain posts are prestigious (such as your first chair example) but do not have strictly objective criteria. I have a friend with a percussionist son who left the symphonic music world because politics were often as influential as skill and talent. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/3 "2012-01-22T17:17:01Z")
[Trinity Guildhall](http://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/site/?id=55) has graded exams for most all kinds of music. Check out some exams on [YouTube.](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trinity+guildhall&oq=trinity+guildhall&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=24145l25220l0l26041l6l4l0l0l0l0l192l524l2.2l4l0) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/4 "2012-01-22T17:23:41Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > No, probably because chess and martial arts are competitive, and there can be some sort of objective criteria applied (although I don’t know how it is actually done in either discipline). In martial arts you take tests that are judged by an expert, at least up to some level. > > In music there are no types of certification tests or assessments that are industry standard. Certain posts are prestigious (such as your first chair example) but do not have strictly objective criteria. I have a friend with a percussionist son who left the symphonic music world because politics were often as influential as skill and talent. This is the correct answer; but it is worth noting that there are, at least in the world of classical music, [competitions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_classical_music_competitions), such as for example the [International Tchaikovsky Competition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Tchaikovsky_Competition) that made Van Cliburn famous. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/5 "2012-01-23T01:59:20Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > [Trinity Guildhall](http://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/site/?id=55) has graded exams for most all kinds of music.[ I am not familiar with their grading or how widely it is recognized but from what I can see on their web site it seems to be an academic grading rather than a standard of professional attainment. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This is the correct answer; but it is worth noting that there are, at least in the world of classical music, [URL=“[List of classical music competitions - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_classical_music_competitions)”]competitions]([http://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=trinity+guildhall&oq=trinity+guildhall&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs\_sm=e&gs\_upl=24145l25220l0l26041l6l4l0l0l0l0l192l524l2.2l4l0](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trinity+guildhall&oq=trinity+guildhall&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=24145l25220l0l26041l6l4l0l0l0l0l192l524l2.2l4l0)), such as for example the [International Tchaikovsky Competition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Tchaikovsky_Competition) that made Van Cliburn famous. There is also the [Thelonious Monk competition](http://www.monkinstitute.org/competition/) for jazz. However, formal competition is not an integral part of the music the way it is with the two examples in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/6 "2012-01-23T02:26:16Z")
I understand why such a thing could exist but I doubt it is as relevant as it is for some thing like Chess. Music is an art after all. You could argue that something like American Idol is what you are asking about. However, you may be thinking of something like Guitar Hero competition for real musicians. I am still not sure you can score most of it like a sport because it isn’t all about technical ability. That is only one aspect of it. Studio musicians and orchestra musicians depend on lots of technical ability but that isn’t as true for other types. Most instrument music is still interpretational rather than strictly playing the notes exactly as they are written. Many professional musicians can’t read music at all. It is even more varied with vocalists. It isn’t about hitting all the right notes. Much of it is about tonal quality of the voice as well and that is what makes someone like Bonnie Tyler, Barry White, and Karen Carpenter stand out from the rest. Listening to a skilled technical vocalist can still be uninspiring or tedious if they don’t have other skills. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/7 "2012-01-23T21:27:31Z")
Well, there is everyone else, and then, at the bottom end of the scale, there is me… OK, perhaps unfair. I can play a kazoo. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-recognized-scale-of-musical-talent/610305/8 "2012-01-23T21:35:08Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > **Is There a Recognized Scale of Musical Talent?** Yeah, it’s called the minor pentatonic scale, and you have to play it as fast as possible. No, hang on, that’s just what heavy metal guitarists seem to think.