# Is there a Santa Claus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 19, 2000, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367 "2000-12-19T17:11:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/1 "2000-12-19T17:11:25Z")
Given the season, I thought it time to dig up this classic. [Is there a Santa Claus?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/971226.html) I have to say I think Cecil blew it. From the article: > [@](#): > > Wherefore if there’s someone who’s going to say flat out that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, it’s not going to be me. Come on Cecil, you’re willing to take on [homeopathy](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000225.html), [acupuncture](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000324.html), [jet contrails/chemtrails](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000616.html), [the illuminati](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_043.html), [oil company conspiracies](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_150.html), and [the “whole nine yards” origin](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_252.html). But you’re scared by the fat guy and his elves? Think he won’t bring you any more christmas gifts? Think Rudolph and the gang will run you down some cold winter night? Expecting a sleigh drive-by from the elf goon squad? Or are you just afraid if you tell on Santa, someone will tell on you? Children grow up. Eventually, they want a straight answer, not a wishy-washy dance around the topic. They want someone in authority to confirm what they suspect, to treat them with respect and tell the truth. Their friends could be lying, their parents may not be ready for them to grow up, the media gladly plays into the myth. Somewhere they want to find one person with the integrity to answer the question honestly, truthfully, no shinola. Isn’t that the spirit of the Straight Dope? Telling it like it is? Cecil blew it. Shame on you. Oh, by the way, Santa Claus is not real. He’s a myth, a fairy tale, a story we tell to get in the spirit of the holiday and bring out our giving natures, but he isn’t a person. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/2 "2000-12-19T18:20:38Z")
Pretty good for a rant, but I can only give it a 9, because you left out “Where’s your Santa Claus now? I spit on your Santa Claus!” Anyway, happy, um, Winter’s Solstice. Just remember that the sun’s low point in its travels comes in a couple of days, so it is vitally important for everyone to scare it with a lot of banging of pots and pans, etc., otherwise it might continue to drop lower in the sky until it falls into the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/3 "2000-12-19T19:20:28Z")
Winter solstice? We can give Irishman better celebrations than that, whitetho. He can choose from one of these: Butter Sculpture Festival Chaomos Diwali Dosmoche Feast of the Ass Ganna Hari-Kuyo Midvinterblot Night of the Radishes Sacaea Saturnalia Wassailing the Apple Trees only a partial list of the many winter traditions mentioned here: [Winter festivals of light](http://www.davka.org/lightfestivals.html) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/4 "2000-12-19T20:16:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Irishman \* > \*\* > Oh, by the way, Santa Claus is not real. He’s a myth, a fairy tale, a story we tell to get in the spirit of the holiday and bring out our giving natures, but he isn’t a person. \*\* Oh yeah? Prove it! (Maybe we can get this moved to Great Debates) ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/5 "2000-12-20T01:19:06Z")
S-Santa isn’t real? _bursts into tears and runs sobbing out of the thread_ ---
**Author:** ![jaimest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jaimest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaimest)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/6 "2000-12-20T02:17:40Z")
Ever try looking in the white pages? There are 4 Santa Clauses listed. Heck, just call them up and ask. Santa Claus Rockledge , FL (321)639-6066 Santa Claus Austin , TX (512)478-7084 Santa Claus Oakley , CA (925)625-0209 Santa Claus Goshen , IN (219)534-8471 I wonder if they are related? ---
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/7 "2000-12-20T03:53:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whitetho \* > \*\*Pretty good for a rant, but I can only give it a 9, because you left out “Where’s your Santa Claus now? I spit on your Santa Claus!” > \*\* To say nothing of forgetting: “Santa Claus **this** ” Or [grabbing crotch] “I’ve got your Santa Claus\*\* right here\*\*, buddy!” [sub]I never have an opportunity to post in this forum, and the best I can come up with is some smartassed remark? Oh well. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/8 "2000-12-20T10:59:27Z")
I knew a 15 year old high school freshman who believed in Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/9 "2000-12-20T15:15:43Z")
whitetho, cute. Actually, I did attend a Solstice party. And since it was early, I reminded everyone to encourage the Sun to return. 😉 Arnold, “Feast of the Ass” sounds pretty fun. :looks again: You know, that could be taken another way that doesn’t come so flatteringly. 😉 “Wassailing the Apple Trees”? What did the poor apple trees do? Will the sue over this? Colibri, it’s not a debate. I don’t have to prove it. No one has proven his existence, or provided reliable evidence. Spare me semantic arguments about me asserting a negative case. My point was not to debate the issue. Cecil makes the comment that he won’t be the one to state it plainly. I say that if anyone should be the one to state it plainly, it should be Cecil. Since he didn’t I did. Kat, yep, sorry to burst your bubble. Now you might want to think about what else you’ve been lied to about. And just why your parents and everyone you respect and admire would want you to believe something patently false. It’s a conspiracy, I tell you. But I respect you enough to tell you the truth. jaimest, interesting. Are you suggesting Santa Claus doesn’t spend all his time at the North Pole, and hangs out in his alternate addresses to get a break from it all? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/10 "2000-12-20T17:14:42Z")
Yes, I liked the Feast of the Ass celebration too. (Those of you obsessed with sex should go read the description of the celebration at the link I posted above before you start making your jokes.) But Irishman, I guess that when you check your stocking this year, you may find some cold, dark, sooty rocks, because S. C. doesn’t like to be defied. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/11 "2000-12-20T22:11:17Z")
Nah, my mom fills them good. I read the descriptions, and the Feast of the Ass sounds more fun than I guessed. I can just imagine leading a donkey into my parents’ church and watching the congregation bray like asses. About the wassailing, it says the men must guess the name of the roast being prepared. What, “Bessie?”, “Patches?”, “Elizabeth?” ---
**Author:** ![D.Suzanne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@D.Suzanne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.Suzanne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/12 "2000-12-21T06:28:13Z")
The last thing I intend to do is to discourage people from using the phrase “Feast of the Ass,” as this is clearly something which our society is sorely lacking (no double-entendre there, thank you), in spirit anyway, but I thought I might see if anybody wanted to bite, not on the question of whether Santa exists, and also not on an Ass, but instead on the question of whether _belief_ in Santa is overall a force for the improvement or detriment of society and humanity. To either spark off some issue here or bore you to tears and make you stop reading this, depending on how you feel, here is a possibly obnoxious view of the Santafication of our society: ``` The purpose of fantasies is to make the unbearable bearable, either in order to cope with the unavoidable, or in order to allow repressive societal practices to continue without challenge from the oppressed. Is Santa a fantasy in this sense, or just good fun? Well, what repressive tendencies could it be that Santa would make bearable? We all know the disturbing song "Santa Claus is Coming to Town." Santa teaches us that you get goodies if you are good, not that you get goodies because your parents want to be happy and love you (although of course you might be taught that elsewhere). This means both that we tend to think of the moral as connected to the pleasurable such that we do not learn to be moral for only its own rewards, and also such that we make the reverse deduction, that if we have goodies then we must by that fact be deserving. Therefore, Santa is a capitalistic liberal individualist patsy, which trains our children to adapt to a society based on ruthless and meaningless production of buying power rather than virtue and caring. Materialism and Consumerism a-go-go! How do all y'all feel about this? Wrong-headed, convincing, or just disturbing? ``` ---
**Author:** ![FloChi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@FloChi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloChi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/13 "2000-12-21T13:03:03Z")
D Suzanne, I’m with you. Santa Claus is a device to make people conform. Santa never came to me as a child because my parents said that we lived too far from town. I was good all year. I never did wrong. And I see the kids who beat me up all year at school get a whole heap of presents from Santa. What was this supposed to tell me? Santa always gives presents. Who has ever recieved coal in leiu of presents? It doesn’t matter what you do, if you pretend to be good at the end of the year, presents come your way. So it doesn’t even send out a moral lesson. But I do agree that moral values are obscured by Santa. Who does good things for the feeling of it, rather than a materialistic reward? This is why we have panhandlers, beggars and so on. In old times they would have been taekn into someones house and fed and everyone would have lived a nice communal life. Oops, that was probably a bit too much. But the point still stands. Santa? Bah! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/14 "2000-12-21T23:17:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Santa Claus is a device to make people conform. And the gnomes in Zurich control the world’s monetary supply, aided by the Trilats and the Illuminati. Yes, Virginia. And it ain’t Santa’s fault if materialism has obscured the truth. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/15 "2000-12-25T00:09:12Z")
OK cecil won’t say it so I will. Damn right there is a Santa. You know there seems to be a big misconception about getting sticks and coal for christmas. What kid wouldn’t grin if he found a big bundle of sticks under the tree if he or she was the one that had to go out in the cold and gather,chop or what have you fuel for the fire. It was a much simpler albeit harder time “back then”. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/16 "2000-12-25T01:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FloChi \* > Who has ever recieved coal in leiu of presents? This would go a long way to explaining **Anthracite** ’s obsession… ---
**Author:** ![\_Gadget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/f04885/32.png) [@\_Gadget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Gadget)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/17 "2000-12-25T02:33:11Z")
It strikes me that too many are looking too close to home. Santa is based on the moon, didn’t one of the astronauts say something like; “Housten, there really is a Santa Clause” ??? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/18 "2000-12-25T02:42:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > **And the gnomes in Zurich control the world’s monetary supply** We must free the Gnomes of Zurich! Invade Switzerland! Bye, John (And sorry, Mr Hell.) ---
**Author:** ![SpinneZiege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SpinneZiege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpinneZiege)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/19 "2000-12-25T18:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _As said by Cecil_ > \*\*A great many seemingly improbable events do in fact occur. Florida winning the World Series. Cleveland winning the World Series. Compared to this, what is the accurate delivery of zillions of packages in the course of a single night? > > \*\* The Cubs have never won a penant. Never have, never will. According to this updated hypothesis, Santa Claus does not exist. Although, now that I’m a Pittsburgh, I find it hard to believe that Cleveland ever made it, but they did. Maybe the ol’ elf does exist…HA! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2000, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367/20 "2000-12-25T18:51:20Z")
**Arnold** said > [@](#): > > But Irishman, I guess that when you check your stocking this year, you may find some cold, dark, sooty rocks, because S. C. doesn’t like to be defied. **Irishman** in reply, said > [@](#): > > Nah, my mom fills them good. Hypocrite! Next year, tell your mom you’re such a non-believer that you don’t need no stinkin’ presents. (Unless I mis-read your reply. I guess your mom could be a cross-dresser, wearing your clothes.) 😃 \*I, in no way, mean to insult your mom by my attempt at humor. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/46367.md?page=2)