# Is there a Santa Claus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 23, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206 "2010-12-23T17:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/1 "2010-12-23T17:58:22Z")
Nope. Oh, sorry, thought we were fighting ignorance. > **[Is there a Santa Claus?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342522/is-there-a-santa-claus)** ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/2 "2010-12-23T18:06:43Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nope. Oh, sorry, thought we were fighting ignorance. My mommy says you’re a meanie and a fibber. And you’re geting nothing but coal in _your_ stocking this year! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/3 "2010-12-23T20:55:32Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nope. Oh, sorry, thought we were fighting ignorance. > > [Is there a Santa Claus? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1370/is-there-a-santa-claus) I guess this proves you are not Cecil. ---
**Author:** ![Atheana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Atheana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atheana)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/4 "2010-12-23T23:39:45Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nope. Oh, sorry, thought we were fighting ignorance. > > [Is there a Santa Claus? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1370/is-there-a-santa-claus) I wonder, did you read the column, or just skim it for the answer you thought was right, and then post here about it when Cecil didn’t echo your precise thoughts?? I, for one, adore this column. It’s one of my favorites by Unca Cecil. We love you, Unca Cecil!!! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/5 "2010-12-23T23:53:10Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > My mommy says you’re a meanie and a fibber. > > And you’re geting nothing but coal in _your_ stocking this year! Oooh, coal! I’ve always wanted coal! > [@Atheana](#): > > I wonder, did you read the column, or just skim it for the answer you thought was right, and then post here about it when Cecil didn’t echo your precise thoughts?? Oh no, I read the whole column. I read it every year, and post the obligatory response. This year I didn’t bother linking to my previous thread on this column. I get it - Cecil doesn’t want to be the one to put in writing “Santa Claus is a myth”, because someone will show it to a kid and “spoil the magic”. Hey, I’m not one to go around blabbing to children just to spoil the fun. I have not informed my nephew of it, though if he gets around to asking me he will get a straight answer. Because if he’s old enough to ask, he’s old enough for the truth. But Cecil’s column is not supposed to be for kids, and the SDMB has a lower age limit. And yeah, I think it is important that when kids get old enough to question it that they get a straight answer, not a circumlocution. So since Cecil can’t say it, I will - Santa Claus is a myth. Enjoy your Christmas, just don’t think there really is a fat guy coming down the chimney. But Cecil is bound by the ethical code of mythical figures - they can’t rat on each other. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/6 "2010-12-24T02:14:25Z")
I am an adult (with kids (who, in the interests of full disclosure, are not in the room as I type this, so I will state my true feelings on Santa)) and I think Cecil got it spot on in explaining Santa. Francis Pharcellus Church had it even more precise. (In this group of erudite folks, I don’t think i should explain who he is, I get the impression if a Doper doesn’t know something he takes great joy in looking it up, as he or she is a Doper because they love knowledge). My kids (ages 6 and 8), who do still believe in the myth, know that Santa exists, but that he isn’t everywhere at once. Just today we were at the mall, seeing Santa (just passing by, they made their formal visit a few weeks ago) and my daughter whispered to me that it wasn’t the real Santa there, just one of his helpers. (She was whispering because she didn’t want to ruin it for the little kids). That, to me, is what Santa is all about. Yes, the closest thing to a real-life Santa, the 4th (?) century bishop St. Nicholas, is long dead. But we, as parents and other adults who love making kids happy, are “Santa’s helpers”. We perpetuate the myth because the world is a better place with Santa alive. We may be the ones buying the presents - they weren’t made in a factory at the North Pole. We may be the ones eating the cookies and drinking the milk, not a fat home intruder. But, if we didn’t, there wouldn’t be a Christmas, and there wouldn’t be a Santa. So, is Santa alive? Absolutely, as long as his “helpers” keep him alive. As one of Santa’s helpers, I am proud to say that. (As I pointed out, I write that fully aware that all Dopers know that Santa Claus the man isn’t real. But Santa the myth is indeed immortal, as long as parents exist.) ---
**Author:** ![waynemcdougall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b77776/32.png) [@waynemcdougall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waynemcdougall)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/7 "2010-12-24T03:14:36Z")
Cecil puts it beautifully and succinctly, and this is how I explain it to my children: > [@](#): > > The giving of gifts in such a way that no credit will devolve upon ourselves is sufficiently at odds with our routine behaviour as to be accounted a mystery, and we may as well give that mystery a name. Santa Claus it is. My first born we always told the straight truth too. The next too I got lazy and gave up fighting mass media. I never lied to them, but never disabused them of misapprehensions. My daughter at 5 concluded that Santa wasn’t a real person by a logical deduction based on the non-existence of flying reindeer. This year at 6 she is trying to argue it might still be possible. No atheists in foxholes and no non-believers in pre-school. Not if they are smart enough. But the mystery - the mystery of Santa Claus will live on. Santa Lives! ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/8 "2010-12-24T04:30:09Z")
> [@waynemcdougall](#): > > My daughter at 5 concluded that Santa wasn’t a real person by a logical deduction based on the non-existence of flying reindeer. This year at 6 she is trying to argue it might still be possible. Your six year old is smarter than you realize. She is applying [Pascal’s Wager](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/) to Santa Claus: 1). There are two possible states of Santa Claus’ existence: Santa Claus may exist. Santa Claus may not exist. 2). Let us assume Santa Claus does not exist. Those who believe and those who don’t believe will share the same fate: They’ll get presents from their parents. 3). However, what if Santa Claus does exist. Then believers will get presents while non-believers will not. Therefore, we can conclude that it is better to believe in Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/9 "2010-12-24T04:58:49Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > Your six year old is smarter than you realize. She is applying [Pascal’s Wager](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/) to Santa Claus: > > 1). There are two possible states of Santa Claus’ existence: Santa Claus may exist. Santa Claus may not exist. > > 2). Let us assume Santa Claus does not exist. Those who believe and those who don’t believe will share the same fate: They’ll get presents from their parents. > > 3). However, what if Santa Claus does exist. Then believers will get presents while non-believers will not. > > Therefore, we can conclude that it is better to believe in Santa Claus. Santa gives presents to children based on their naughtiness, not their disbelief in him. Any mythological person who would punish people for not believing in him is a real asshole. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/10 "2010-12-24T09:14:20Z")
[ul] [li]When I was a kid, I realized Santa Claus wasn’t real.[/li] [li]When I was a teenager, I realized Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas.[/li] [li]When I was an adult, I discovered Santa Claus **is** real![/li][/ul] It is a historically accepted fact that Saint Nicholas of Myra was an actual person who is patron saint of children. Furthermore, legend has it that back in the fourth century, he was credited with anonymously leaving gifts under the cover of night. \ \*But as with all folks, good Saint Nicholas eventually passed on, but as time passed, something special happened… The charitable gift-giving spirit of ol’ Saint Nick lived on! Not just in one person, but his spirit travels all over the world every Christmas! \*\ ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/11 "2010-12-24T14:09:56Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > [ul] > [li]When I was a kid, I realized Santa Claus wasn’t real.[/li] > [li]When I was a teenager, I realized Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas.[/li] > [li]When I was an adult, I discovered Santa Claus **is** real![/li][/ul] So apparently [ul][\*]When you become a senior citizen, you’ll discover “Jesus is the reason for the season”.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/12 "2010-12-24T14:18:46Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > But Cecil’s column is not supposed to be for kids, and the SDMB has a lower age limit. And yeah, I think it is important that when kids get old enough to question it that they get a straight answer, not a circumlocution. > > So since Cecil can’t say it, I will - Santa Claus is a myth. Enjoy your Christmas, just don’t think there really is a fat guy coming down the chimney. > > But Cecil is bound by the ethical code of mythical figures - they can’t rat on each other. Cecil assumes that everyone reading his column understands that Santa Claus is a myth. Cecil assumes that everyone over about 8 years old realizes that, and most kids under 8 do, too. Cecil assumes his audience/readers ARE intelligent. Or reasonably so, most of the time, sort of. A column that asks, “Is Santa Claus real?” and answers with the one word “No” will not fill the column. And (more important) would not be interesting to ANY of his readers. Not one. A column that explores the historicity of St Nicholas, those are a dime a dozen. A column that explores the sentiment that keeps the myth alive: that seems interesting. Plus, every so often, Cecil engages in his sense of humor. That gives us columns like this one: [What’s the story on that weird medieval cult, the flatulents? Plus: do the Chinese use Chinese water torture? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2373/whats-the-story-on-that-weird-medieval-cult-the-flatulents) which includes the medieval cult of flatulents and why there’s a marijuana leaf on the Canadian flag. Also, on rare occasions, Cecil indulges in a little sentimentality. The column to which you so strenuously object every year is just that. Combines his sense of humor with his sense of warm-fuzziness. Doesn’t happen often, so we treasure it. ---
**Author:** ![RedWood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f08c70/32.png) [@RedWood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedWood)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/13 "2010-12-24T16:11:41Z")
We are ALL Santa. Or we can be, if we choose to. Thanks, Cecil! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/14 "2010-12-24T22:17:44Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > I am an adult (with kids (who, in the interests of full disclosure, are not in the room as I type this, so I will state my true feelings on Santa)) and I think Cecil got it spot on in explaining Santa. Francis Pharcellus Church had it even more precise. Are you kidding, he defends Santa by invoking that fairies are real. :rolleyes: Next thing you know, we’ll be defending that Thetans are real and that we need an e-meter to make us clear. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/15 "2010-12-25T00:28:46Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > … Next thing you know, we’ll be defending that Thetans are real and that we need an e-meter to make us clear. Ya know, **Irishman** , I think your **Body Thetans** are acting up. I recommend the [Thetan Hand Technique](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_thetan#Removal) to get rid of them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/16 "2010-12-25T20:00:36Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Nope. Oh, sorry, thought we were fighting ignorance. > > [Is there a Santa Claus? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1370/is-there-a-santa-claus) Childlike whimsy and the ability to use our imaginations without limits aren’t the same things as ignorance, especially if they are being practiced by children or recognized as being such by adults. At this pivotal moment in history, where the harsh realities of the universe met with the all too short-lived ability to imagine and make-believe that comes only with youth, Cecil managed to provide a scientifically correct answer without being the guy who throws a glass of ice water in the faces of kids youthful imaginations year after year, for generations to come. After all, who would want to be that guy? ---
**Author:** ![Caveat\_lector\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@Caveat\_lector\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caveat_lector_1)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/17 "2010-12-25T22:35:53Z")
Also it gives us this. This is a darn fine paragraph. > [@](#): > > Besides, to believe in Santa Claus is to believe in magic. The belief in magic in many respects is a pernicious thing. Because of it you’ve got countless multitudes thinking that aliens abduct people, that Elvis is alive, that you can earn big money stuffing envelopes in your home, and that the TV preacher can cure you if you send him 50 bucks. A certain class of persons, of whom your columnist is one, will go through their lives attempting to extinguish these foolish hopes. No doubt in the main it is good that we do so. But even the sternest among us remembers the wonder we felt as children to think there was a force having a kindly interest in us that wasn’t bound by the rules of this drab world. Wherefore if there’s someone who’s going to say flat out that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, it’s not going to be me. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/18 "2010-12-27T00:44:25Z")
[quote=“ZenBeam, post:11, topic:565206”] So apparently [ul][li]When you become a senior citizen, you’ll discover “Jesus is the reason for the season”.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] You **wound** me sir. ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/19 "2010-12-28T09:01:12Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > [ul] > [li]When I was a kid, I realized Santa Claus wasn’t real.[/li] > [li]When I was a teenager, I realized Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas.[/li] > [li]When I was an adult, I discovered Santa Claus **is** real![/li][/ul] When I was a kid, I believed in Santa Claus. By the age of four I was nearly convinced that he was a myth for little kids. Then, while at a Christmas party at parents friends’ house, I was looking outside through the slot in the curtains and saw Santa Claus sneaking across the darkened front yard. He saw me, put his finger to his lips with a shushing motion, then slinked off. I told the three other kids at the party, but he was long gone. Our monitoring of the window gave no new evidence. But I did walk all around among the towering adults for the rest of the party, waiting for the guy in the santa suit to leap out and surprise everyone. This never occurred, but I’d fallen asleep on the couch before the end of the party. On the way home I asked my mom and dad if the santa suit guy ever appeared, but they didn’t know what I was talking about. So, what happens when a Skeptic personally experiences a space aliens abduction, or a near death experience, etc.? 🙂 Now as an adult I have two thoughts: if there is any unmonitored communication channel between human brains, even a subconscious one, even one based on body language and subtle facial expressions, it opens up the possibility of an enormous “internet” filled with living super-memes, ancient virii; evolution-shaped self-modifying code snippets living as parasites and co-evolved symbiotes in the vast processor-farm of human culture. As with bird song, co-evolution may have even provided “brain sockets” into which fairly complicated independently-thinking culturally-communicated virii can fit. If it’s possible for such a virus to usurp human perceptions and insert itself into our 3D perceptual world, evolution almost guarantees that it will have done so (perhaps starting hundreds of thousands of years ago.) This would explain much, and only requires a crude form of “telepathy,” plus a few hundred millenia of time to develop. Biocomputers, plus bio-WiFi, plus lack of security, gives petri dish of competing, fast-evolving noise patterns. Santa Claus may have the same genuine existence as the silent independent personalities seen in “Alien Hand Syndrome.” Old Trek’s “Wolf in the Fold,” but not “Rejick Rejick REJICK!” Drink some reindeer urine, grab your besom, go march at the head of the yearly equinox parade. Will your normal personality be temporarily overwritten by something Other? OK, now instead drink some spiked eggnog and brandish your Visa card… Second thought: FREAKING DEFINE the phrase Santa Claus!!! If two opponents are discussing “god” while unknowingly maintaining totally separate and incompatible definitions of the term, all discussions become useless tangles. Same with “Santa Claus.” ---
**Author:** ![kristy01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kristy01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kristy01)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-santa-claus/565206/20 "2010-12-28T10:15:37Z")
There is no existence of Santa Claus in this world. We all are Santa’s and kidding each other