# Is there a short non-racist substitute for "Indian giver" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078 "2013-09-05T15:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/21 "2013-09-05T17:14:31Z")
I only used that term as a kid long ago when PCness was not so …, Anywho, it was used in a negative way toward the person who wanted something back. And not something like needing a lawn mower back to use because the new one got pear shaped. I have never heard an adult say that to another adult in any but a teasing way between friends. If, as a third party, this teasing offends you, best you just keep quiet. Or is that too un-PC to let be, because being PC & forcing those around you to be PC or listening to you harp about it is the new PC thing to do??? _(sarcasm above for those who need the notification )_ ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/22 "2013-09-05T18:41:23Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > How about “Welch” 😉 Agreed, but I’d add in chiseler or swindler depending upon the specific situation. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/23 "2013-09-05T18:42:20Z")
First-world problems. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/24 "2013-09-05T18:48:47Z")
Ummm, how is it racist? Judging by Wikipedia, the origin of the phrase appears to denote an actual Native American custom. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/25 "2013-09-05T18:51:37Z")
> [@bup](#): > > It’s also not an epithet. Not a substitute. A _take-back_ might count, but it’s not as satisfying to call somebody. The OP didn’t specify epithet, but I see where you’re coming from. You’d have to restructure the sentence because you wouldn’t say “I’m a take back.” (Except in certain regional dialects in which case you might say “I’m a take back that thar mower.” 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/26 "2013-09-05T18:56:08Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > Ummm, how is it racist? Judging by Wikipedia, the origin of the phrase appears to denote an actual Native American custom. The way the OP is stated, the racism of the term is a given in the question. Therefore the question you ask is outside the scope. However, here’s evidence [the term is racist](https://www.google.com/search?q=indian+giver+racist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a). If you need further evidence, go to a reservation and ask what they think of the term. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/27 "2013-09-05T18:57:22Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > If, as a third party, this teasing offends you, best you just keep quiet. If some guy is beating his wife and that offends you, should you just keep quiet? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/28 "2013-09-05T19:31:40Z")
Yes. Because your example is the exact same as GusNSpots. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/29 "2013-09-05T19:35:41Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I don’t want to be a Polonius, 'cause I hate getting stabbed. Especially in the arras. We all know how painful that can be. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/30 "2013-09-05T19:41:39Z")
“Take-backerer”. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/31 "2013-09-05T20:54:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The simplest construction that would convey the same idea might be to “renege on my loan/gift.” > > “I don’t mean to renege on my loan” - same number of words. > > You could just say “I don’t want to renege.” > > The main difference is that “renege” is not specific to a gift, but includes backing out of any promise or commitment. But please don’t call anyone a renegger. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/32 "2013-09-05T21:16:03Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > “Sorry Bob, I don’t want to be a XXXX, but my new mower just conked out and I’ll need to borrow back my old mower that I just gave you.” “Sorry, Bob; I don’t want to be an Andrew Jackson, but I really want that land we gave you in a treaty, so go resettle on a reservation somewhere else.” ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/33 "2013-09-05T21:21:54Z")
> [@bup](#): > > The way the OP is stated, the racism of the term is a given in the question. Therefore the question you ask is outside the scope. > > However, here’s evidence [the term is racist](https://www.google.com/search?q=indian+giver+racist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a). If you need further evidence, go to a reservation and ask what they think of the term. How does that prove it is racist? Don’t get me wrong, I think it is, but you could Google practically anything with racist and get results. That’s not evidence of anything. Here are just a few that have many more results: > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=sesame%2Bstreet%2Bracist)** > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=coffee%2Bracist)** > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=waffles%2Bracist)** ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/34 "2013-09-05T21:29:24Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > But please don’t call anyone a renegger. Yeah. I remember all that foorah (please pardon my strong language) when that guy used the word “niggardly” in its proper context. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/35 "2013-09-05T21:36:22Z")
Part of the problem is that it does _NOT_ describe an Indian custom. The objectionable Indian custom was to give a gift and expect a better one back. The current use of the term is to welch/renege/take back on a deal or gift. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/36 "2013-09-05T21:53:08Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Yeah. I remember all that foorah (please pardon my strong language) when that guy used the word “niggardly” in its proper context. Foorah? Do you mean foofarah? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/37 "2013-09-05T21:56:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Foorah? Do you mean foofarah? I think he means furor (or furore). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/38 "2013-09-05T22:04:25Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > But please don’t call anyone a renegger. Then how about renegga? Any reneggaz in da house? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/39 "2013-09-05T22:13:11Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > But please don’t call anyone a renegger. Damn you for beating me to saying that. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-short-non-racist-substitute-for-indian-giver/668078/40 "2013-09-05T22:20:51Z")
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