# Is there a sort of "nerdy misogyny"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810 "2009-10-31T03:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/21 "2009-10-31T19:51:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Nobody’s yet explained now this alleged nerd misogyny **is different from sexism in general** , which is what the OP is asking. The “salesman talks to the guy when buying computer parts” bit applies to buying cars, power tools, and almost anything else stereotypically male, whether nerds are involved or not. Well, it’s _not_ really different. The only thing that makes it “nerd misogyny” is that it is coming from “nerds”. And it’s not, actually, universal - the last two times the husband and I went to buy cars the salesmen were quite respectful of me and answered my technical questions thoughtfully, as if I were an intelligent human being (which, of course, I am). Not everyone is a bigot. Thank god. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/22 "2009-10-31T20:05:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Nobody’s yet explained now this alleged nerd misogyny **is different from sexism in general** , which is what the OP is asking. The “salesman talks to the guy when buying computer parts” bit applies to buying cars, power tools, and almost anything else stereotypically male, whether nerds are involved or not. Men tend to be more interested in objects than in people, whereas women tend to be the opposite (this is the standard psychological view - Susan Pinker discusses this extensively in her book _The Sexual Paradox_). My view is that misogyny can result from an extreme interest in objects (gadgets, computers, or what-have-you) at the expense of an interest in people and ability to understand them. Many people from all walks of life are low on people skills. But nerds are very often low on people skills. I imagine that the sort of misogyny that is born of a general lack of people skills would be more common among nerds than among other groups of people. I am only suggesting that this is one route by which misogyny could be born - there are many others, such as social conservatism, ego-assertiveness, or an obsession with masculine toughness. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/23 "2009-10-31T20:14:39Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Many people from all walks of life are low on people skills. But nerds are very often low on people skills. I imagine that the sort of misogyny that is born of a general lack of people skills would be more common among nerds than among other groups of people. If it’s genuine cluelessness (which is the case for most nerds), it’s not misogyny. You can keep calling it misogyny, but that doesn’t mean that’s what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/24 "2009-10-31T20:22:54Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I believe nerd misogyny manifests itself as a sort of an adolescent objectification and fantastical elevation of women. > > [Looking at this list from Maxim’s top ten nerd crush list (the actual Maxim page is down), you get the following women:](http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/fisher-tops-nerd-crush-list_1023514) > > [list snipped] > > This is misogynistic in that nerds do not view women as real people. They view them objects (quite litterally in the case of sexy robots) or a sort of magical creature to be either controlled or held on some kind of figurative pedestal. Those are **fantasy women**. Fantasies aren’t realistic, and maybe nerds are more comfortable with acknowledging that, but that doesn’t make them misogynists. You might as well complain that all the women on that list would be considered “hot” by any warm blooded male. > [@](#): > > The IT field has a “faux” macho culture. It can be best exemplified by Michael Bolton in Office Space. A big mouth guy who listens to NWA and has Navy Seal recruitment posters on his wall but can probably barely do a pushup. I’ve never ran into that at all, and quite frankly anyone with **that** kind of macho attitude would not be taken seriously any nerd I know (though I do know a few who do listen to NWA, Slayer, Hardcore punk or other “rebellious” music). ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/25 "2009-10-31T20:49:34Z")
One thing that exacerbates the issue is the ratio of make to female nerds. Birds of a feather flock together, says the cliche, and it seems like there’s far more male nerds than female nerds. This makes it hard to find a mate, and thus could be a contributing factor to the misogyny. You might say “Yeah, but what about guys who are sports fans? They seem to have no problems attracting women, even though relatively few women are sports-crazed.” Maybe, but I’ve found that the people who tend to be sports fans have that as a side interest. Sports fandom usually doesn’t dominate their life, or define them as people. With the nerds, more often than not nerdom is a lifestyle, something that is far more all-encompassing. Basically, the nerds tend not to be as well-rounded as the sports fans. FWIW, I’ve found that the people who live, breathe, eat and sleep sports fanaticism are often seen by the general public as losers, much in the same way as those who are immersed into the nerd/geek lifestyle. Ever meet a hardcore baseball fan; not just someone who follows major league baseball or takes roadtrips to visits ballparks, but someone that’s into stat geekery? They’ll put the RPG/SF/fantasy/SCA/science/Linux geeks to shame. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/26 "2009-10-31T21:48:17Z")
I’m tired of general misunderstanding of the opposite sex being labelled as ‘mysogyny’ when men do it, but not characterized in such nasty terms when women do it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/27 "2009-10-31T22:19:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > This is misogynistic in that nerds do not view women as real people. They view them objects (quite litterally in the case of sexy robots) or a sort of magical creature to be either controlled or held on some kind of figurative pedestal. If that way of thinking does exist, it’s not an exclusively male phenomenon. We had a whole thread get started because someone’s daughter thought Legolas in _Lord of the Rings_ was dreamy. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/28 "2009-10-31T23:37:20Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > FWIW, I’ve found that the people who live, breathe, eat and sleep sports fanaticism are often seen by the general public as losers, much in the same way as those who are immersed into the nerd/geek lifestyle. Ever meet a hardcore baseball fan; not just someone who follows major league baseball or takes roadtrips to visits ballparks, but someone that’s into stat geekery? They’ll put the RPG/SF/fantasy/SCA/science/Linux geeks to shame. Soon to be released at Amazon. Pro Football LARPing for Dummies ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/29 "2009-10-31T23:48:21Z")
I have observed the “You can’t be good at/know about that, you’re a GIRL!” attitude more often from geek guys than other types of guys. This may be more because of where my own interests lie than because geek guys are worse than other guys in this way, I don’t know. But I can think of many times in high school and college when geek guys reacted that way to me or my female friends about our geeky interests (e.g. computer programming, roleplaying games, comic books). Worse still, we’ve been accused of not really liking the things we like. We must just be feigning interest to impress some guy. I’ve also seen geek guys complaining online about how there aren’t enough HOT girls who share their interests. :rolleyes: It’s definitely been my impression that a fair number of geek guys see women as being not merely mysterious or even irrational but rather a bunch of idiots and liars. I wouldn’t say _most_ geek guys are this way, but it’s not some tiny minority either. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/30 "2009-11-01T00:10:13Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Many people from all walks of life are low on people skills. But nerds are very often low on people skills. I imagine that the sort of misogyny that is born of a general lack of people skills would be more common among nerds than among other groups of people. There are lots and lots of people in high tech that I would classify as nerds, and there’s a small but not insignificant percentage that lack people skills. But I would contend that in this day and age the percentage isn’t all that different from the rest of the working world. It really depends on how you classify people as nerds. What is the defining characteristic? It seems to me that you’re using he lack of people skills as a way of identifying nerds, making this a bit of self-fulfilling definition. I work with 30-40 engineers and ops folks, all of whom I would classify as nerds based on their technical skills. Of these, I’d say 3-4 have a lack of people skills. Is this more or less than other fields? In fact, of the ones that I’ve witnessed displaying misogyny I’d class them more in the outgoing extrovert side of things. But that may be because they’re more vocal and I’ve just missed it in the ones without the communications skills. There are alas too few women nerds for me to draw conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/31 "2009-11-01T00:18:30Z")
I’m a nerd. I’m a woman. Come to think of it, I don’t understand men. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/32 "2009-11-01T01:29:50Z")
> [@lee](#): > > Well, **Capt. Ridley’s Shooting Party** , first off, I think it is misogyny because no matter how many times the tech sales drone is told that I am the one looking for computer components, he still turns to the man in my group to address the answer to any question **even though I am the one who asked the question.** Do you often buy computer components with a group of people? I have to be honest, it’s extremely rare for me to go down to the computer store and buy components in a group of people: so rare, I doubt I could make any sort of rational conclusion based on my limited experiences. Further, my problem is, in my experience, computer salespeople are hardly ever computer nerds (and in fact, rarely know anything more about the product that they are selling than the customer), so I’m not sure what relevance computer sales have to do with the issue of nerd misogyny? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/33 "2009-11-01T01:48:53Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Do you often buy computer components with a group of people? I have to be honest, it’s extremely rare for me to go down to the computer store and buy components in a group of people: It must be a woman thing. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/34 "2009-11-01T02:47:05Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I’m a nerd. I’m a woman. Come to think of it, I don’t understand men. How you doin! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/35 "2009-11-01T02:58:46Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I’m a nerd. I’m a woman. Come to think of it, I don’t understand men. Misandrist! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/36 "2009-11-01T03:06:24Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Men tend to be more interested in objects than in people, whereas women tend to be the opposite (this is the standard psychological view - Susan Pinker discusses this extensively in her book _The Sexual Paradox_). My view is that misogyny can result from an extreme interest in objects (gadgets, computers, or what-have-you) at the expense of an interest in people and ability to understand them. > > Many people from all walks of life are low on people skills. But nerds are very often low on people skills. I imagine that the sort of misogyny that is born of a general lack of people skills would be more common among nerds than among other groups of people. > > I am only suggesting that this is one route by which misogyny could be born - there are many others, such as social conservatism, ego-assertiveness, or an obsession with masculine toughness. So, if focusing too much on objects over people makes you a misgynist, then focusing too much on people over objects must make you a misandrist? Or, is your premise based on the increasingly pervasive form of misandry that essentially feels that women are the default good, and men are the default bad, with men’s not-quite-so-badness being dependent on the degree to which they are more like women? Men and women have spent millennia being confused and frustrated by each other but I really don’t think it’s fair to label being good at something or not so good at something as some form of hating the other. Anyway, if you want to lay a nerd, don’t blame the nerd for not talking to you. Maybe you should learn to communicate with nerds, if you want to catch one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/37 "2009-11-01T04:12:45Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > So, if focusing too much on objects over people makes you a misgynist, then focusing too much on people over objects must make you a misandrist? > > Or, is your premise based on the increasingly pervasive form of misandry that essentially feels that women are the default good, and men are the default bad, with men’s not-quite-so-badness being dependent on the degree to which they are more like women? > > Men and women have spent millennia being confused and frustrated by each other but I really don’t think it’s fair to label being good at something or not so good at something as some form of hating the other. > > Anyway, if you want to lay a nerd, don’t blame the nerd for not talking to you. Maybe you should learn to communicate with nerds, if you want to catch one. Were you meaning to talk to [this guy](http://www.redwinebuzz.com/winesooth/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/strawman.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/38 "2009-11-01T04:25:48Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I’m a nerd. I’m a woman. Come to think of it, I don’t understand men. Sweater look nice. ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/39 "2009-11-01T15:08:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Sweater look nice. 😃 Regarding the OP: I’m a nerd, and I think I know what you’re getting at. Not sure I’d call it “misogyny” though. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/40 "2009-11-01T15:33:00Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Personally, I think it’s rather telling that you continue to harp on the “madonna/whore” complex of characters these women may play while ignoring the characteristics/personality of the women themselves. I think it’s more telling that you continue to take what appears to be a hostile tone. Did I offend your nerdish sensibilities? > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Finally, if you can’t understand why a nerd guy would want to date a shy, intellectual, bookish, awkward girl, you don’t have any idea what it’s like being a nerd. I’m ok with that. > [@Superfluous Parentheses](#): > > Those are fantasy women. Fantasies aren’t realistic, and maybe nerds are more comfortable with acknowledging that, but that doesn’t make them misogynists. You might as well complain that all the women on that list would be considered “hot” by any warm blooded male. Technically, I believe it’s sexist to go around referring to women as “hot”. You are objectifying them as objects of sexual fullfillment, not as actual people.😉 > [@Superfluous Parentheses](#): > > I’ve never ran into that at all, and quite frankly anyone with that kind of macho attitude would not be taken seriously any nerd I know (though I do know a few who do listen to NWA, Slayer, Hardcore punk or other “rebellious” music). I just never enountered anything I would consider a “macho culture” in IT. At least not compared to say, firemen or construction workers or something like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810.md?page=3)