# Is there a sort of "nerdy misogyny"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 31, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810 "2009-10-31T03:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/41 "2009-11-01T15:46:15Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Were you meaning to talk to [this guy](http://www.redwinebuzz.com/winesooth/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/strawman.jpg)? You might want to familiarize yourself with the term before bandying it about. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/42 "2009-11-01T19:16:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You might want to familiarize yourself with the term before bandying it about. I’m not misusing the term. Let’s look at what you said: > [@](#): > > So, if focusing too much on objects over people makes you a misgynist, then focusing too much on people over objects must make you a misandrist? I never claimed that focusing on objects more than people makes one a misogynist. I said that people with that sort of disposition could be led to misogyny by their lack of people skills. > [@](#): > > Or, is your premise based on the increasingly pervasive form of misandry that essentially feels that women are the default good, and men are the default bad, with men’s not-quite-so-badness being dependent on the degree to which they are more like women? I have no idea where you got this from. > [@](#): > > Men and women have spent millennia being confused and frustrated by each other but I really don’t think it’s fair to label being good at something or not so good at something as some form of hating the other. I never claimed that being good or bad at any particularly thing is a form of hating anything. > [@](#): > > Anyway, if you want to lay a nerd, don’t blame the nerd for not talking to you. Maybe you should learn to communicate with nerds, if you want to catch one. Um. What? * * * All four paragraphs attribute ideas to me that are not my own. So yeah, I’m deploying the notion of a straw man pretty well, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/43 "2009-11-01T20:14:17Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think it’s more telling that you continue to take what appears to be a hostile tone. Did I offend your nerdish sensibilities? Ah, now I understand. That’s not hostility, it’s condescension towards the idea that a “Top X” list is some form of nerdy misogyny. As I said before, alert People magazine, because Hugh Jackman must be treated in misandrist ways by their editors. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/44 "2009-11-01T20:19:01Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > My view is that misogyny can result from an extreme interest in objects (gadgets, computers, or what-have-you) at the expense of an interest in people and ability to understand them. That’s an interesting hypothesis. Why should I believe it’s true? You keep saying it, but I don’t see you providing us with any evidence, or even a convincing theory. > [@](#): > > Many people from all walks of life are low on people skills. But nerds are very often low on people skills. That’s a tautological argument. Nerds lack certain people skills, by definition. That’s why they’re nerds. So you’re saying that people who are low on people skills are low on people skills, which is not an argument of staggering insight. Where you make the jump is “…and this results in misogyny.” Here’s where you need to show your work. In fact, you need to show it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/45 "2009-11-01T20:45:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s an interesting hypothesis. Why should I believe it’s true? You keep saying it, but I don’t see you providing us with any evidence, or even a convincing theory. I didn’t write my OP to lay forth a knock-down argument in favor of this view; I created it to ask whether others have had personal experiences that go along with my own. > [@RickJay](#): > > That’s a tautological argument. Nerds lack certain people skills, by definition. That’s why they’re nerds. So you’re saying that people who are low on people skills are low on people skills, which is not an argument of staggering insight. > > Where you make the jump is “…and this results in misogyny.” Here’s where you need to show your work. In fact, you need to show it’s true. It’s not tautological, because a lack of people skills is _one_ element of what we call “nerdiness”. The most important element is an abiding interest in technical subjects (ie Math, Science, Computers). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/46 "2009-11-01T22:30:23Z")
> [@bluecanary](#): > > 😃 > > Regarding the OP: I’m a nerd, and I think I know what you’re getting at. Not sure I’d call it “misogyny” though. While you’re there in the outlet, say “hello” to the light switch for me. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/47 "2009-11-02T02:49:04Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Soon to be released at Amazon. Pro Football LARPing for Dummies How does football LARPing work? Do you play a football game? Maybe you wear a foam helmet instead of a real one… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/48 "2009-11-02T03:19:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Ah, now I understand. That’s not hostility, it’s condescension towards the idea that a “Top X” list is some form of nerdy misogyny. As I said before, alert People magazine, because Hugh Jackman must be treated in misandrist ways by their editors. > > :rolleyes: Well, your manner of expressing your condescension is a little over the top and innappropriate. However it does provide a great example of “nerd rage” for our discussion. Also, it shows a lack of reading comprehension. I did not say Top X lists are a form of misogyny. I said that the nerdly overindulgence in adolescent sexual fantasizing about women as Heavy Metal leather-clad amazons, sexy robots, cyborgs, aliens and childlike anime characters can become a form of misogyny if they are unable to connect with regular women on a normal intimate level. Here’s a rough guideline. If you are talking about the object of your crush at work, a typical woman overhears you and she’s like “oh that’s cute” or “I can see that, she is very attractive”, it’s just normal fantasizing. If she’s like “you guys are disgusting” it’s probably misogyny. > [@The Bith Shuffle](#): > > My view is that misogyny can result from an extreme interest in objects (gadgets, computers, or what-have-you) at the expense of an interest in people and ability to understand them. I would consider that a more general misanthropy towards people in general. Nerds tend to gravitate towards math, computers, gadgets and other such subjects because they have rigid rules and procedures. They are either on or they are off. They either calculate properly or they don’t. People, OTOH, do not work that way. They are illogical and irrational. Nerds tend to become extremely frustrated or disdainful of people who do not view the world the way they do. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/49 "2009-11-02T05:14:50Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Technically, I believe it’s sexist to go around referring to women as “hot”. You are objectifying them as objects of sexual fullfillment, not as actual people.😉 I just want to state for the record that I do not find being called "hot"objectionable in any way, and I enjoy being an object of sexual fulfillment. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > While you’re there in the outlet, say “hello” to the light switch for me. Are you trying to be the only bee in her bonnet? Anyway, I know exactly what the OP is talking about. It’s really hard to put into words, but if you’re a reasonably attractive and not especially nerdy seeming woman and you’ve ever waded into a pack of nerds and encountered them going “huh huh huh, a female human!” well, you’d know where he’s coming from. > [@msmith537](#): > > Also, it shows a lack of reading comprehension. I did not say Top X lists are a form of misogyny. I said that the nerdly overindulgence in adolescent sexual fantasizing about women as Heavy Metal leather-clad amazons, sexy robots, cyborgs, aliens and childlike anime characters can become a form of misogyny if they are unable to connect with regular women on a normal intimate level. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/50 "2009-11-02T08:12:43Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Here’s a rough guideline. If you are talking about the object of your crush at work, a typical woman overhears you and she’s like “oh that’s cute” or “I can see that, she is very attractive”, it’s just normal fantasizing. If she’s like “you guys are disgusting” it’s probably misogyny. So, if I think that a man that a woman finds attractive is “disgusting”, does that make her a misandrist? Or is it only males that are not allowed to have preferences or fantasies that are just a matter of taste? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/51 "2009-11-02T08:42:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Also, it shows a lack of reading comprehension. I did not say Top X lists are a form of misogyny. I said that the nerdly overindulgence in adolescent sexual fantasizing about women as Heavy Metal leather-clad amazons, sexy robots, cyborgs, aliens and childlike anime characters can become a form of misogyny if they are unable to connect with regular women on a normal intimate level. Lack of reading comprehension? Do you even realize what you’ve written? You’ve said that any man who finds the wrong kind of woman attractive is misogynist. That is just completely baffling in… well, everything. It makes no sense on any level. And then you further stack the deck by implying that finding a woman that appears in a sci-fi show as to be insulting and misogynistic because they’re not “regular” women. As opposed to what? None of the Sex and the City characters are real either. Your responses to this thread confuse me more than any woman ever has. Justin\_Bailey, happily married nerd. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/52 "2009-11-02T10:09:03Z")
Is this “reading comprehension” bit some kind of board in-joke? I’ve never seen a Great Debate thread or any other contentious topic that didn’t devolve into two parties claiming the other couldn’t or wouldn’t read. Anyway, if there is a misogyny specific to nerdom, I think it’s one derived from a romantasization of women, and that mabe women are trapped in the clutches of a materialistic, misogynstic society. It would explain why women aren’t crazy for nerds. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/53 "2009-11-02T12:27:56Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Lack of reading comprehension? Do you even realize what you’ve written? You’ve said that any man who finds the wrong kind of woman attractive is misogynist. That is just completely baffling in… well, everything. It makes no sense on any level. > > And then you further stack the deck by implying that finding a woman that appears in a sci-fi show as to be insulting and misogynistic because they’re not “regular” women. As opposed to what? None of the Sex and the City characters are real either. > > Your responses to this thread confuse me more than any woman ever has. > > Justin\_Bailey, happily married nerd. Ask **Green Bean**. She seems to get it so maybe she can explain it to you it some way that I appear to be unable to. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > So, if I think that a man that a woman finds attractive is “disgusting”, does that make her a misandrist? Or is it only males that are not allowed to have preferences or fantasies that are just a matter of taste? I mean do I really have to spell it out for you? If you are and your friends are sitting around your cubicle gawking at a Maxim spread of the girls from Battlestar Galactica in bikinis going on and on about how you would like to “tap that ass” and so on and annoying your female coworkers (and probably your mature male coworkers as well), that is considered sexist and misogynyst behavior. Or, for that matter, if the women in your office are going on about Huge Jackman’s ass in the same way. > [@Eternal](#): > > Is this “reading comprehension” bit some kind of board in-joke? I’ve never seen a Great Debate thread or any other contentious topic that didn’t devolve into two parties claiming the other couldn’t or wouldn’t read. If somebody repeatedy ascribes statements to a poster that they did not write or continues to willfully misinterpret those statements even after having it explained several times, it is usually an indication that the person cannot or chooses not to comprehend what they are reading. > [@Green Bean](#): > > I just want to state for the record that I do not find being called "hot"objectionable in any way, and I enjoy being an object of sexual fulfillment. If you were in a job interview for an IT position and the managers kept focusing on how “hot” you were to the exclusion of everything else, would you still feel the same way? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/54 "2009-11-02T13:05:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If you are and your friends are sitting around your cubicle gawking at a Maxim spread of the girls from Battlestar Galactica in bikinis going on and on about how you would like to “tap that ass” and so on and annoying your female coworkers (and probably your mature male coworkers as well), that is considered sexist and misogynyst behavior. Sexist? Sure. Probably even grounds for harrassment lawsuits if the men are loud enough or crude enough. But misogynyst? To abuse a well worn quote just a little more, I don’t think that word means what you think it does. Can you define for me _exactly_ why a group of guys discussing a cheesecake spread is proof that these are engaging in some kind of nerd hate about women? > [@](#): > > Or, for that matter, if the women in your office are going on about Huge Jackman’s ass in the same way. Now we’re getting somewhere. Having worked in majority female offices my entire life, it would be helpful for you to know that **women do this all the time**. Popular targets seem to be Hugh Jackman, George Clooney and Sawyer from Lost. I’ve heard enough about Sawyer from Lost to last me a lifetime. Pretending this is more prevelant in men, or even nerdy men, is just simple high school bullying by the “cool” kids. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/55 "2009-11-02T19:27:26Z")
I can sort of see what you might be getting at, if only because the internet is the most sexist place I have ever seen. Most of the websites I like (Cracked & SomethingAwful) are dominated by male geeks and sometimes irritatingly sexist. Both sites also have a highly pseudo-macho culture, defining badassery in terms of violence and how often one gets laid. Oh, and there are a fuckton of titty pictures. I’ve seen the same pair of titties in about 10 different articles over the last few months. On the other hand, Cracked and SomethingAwful make me laugh even when the writers are being douchebags. I’m married to a nerd who respects women, and I’m a nerd woman who is strongly attracted to other nerds. So you won’t hear me complaining _too_ loudly. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/56 "2009-11-02T19:36:35Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Most of the websites I like (Cracked & SomethingAwful) are dominated by male geeks and sometimes irritatingly sexist. See, I’d never classify those people as geeks. They’re just idiots who happen to be on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/57 "2009-11-02T20:14:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > If you are and your friends are sitting around your cubicle gawking at a Maxim spread of the girls from Battlestar Galactica in bikinis going on and on about how you would like to “tap that ass” and so on and annoying your female coworkers (and probably your mature male coworkers as well), that is considered sexist and misogynyst behavior. That is unprofessional, but neither sexist nor misogynistic. Male heterosexuality is not a synonym for sexism or misogyny. If there’s any sexism here, it’s yours; you are essentially claiming that about 90% of men are _ **born** _ sexist and misogynistic, since that’s about how many men are straight. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/58 "2009-11-02T20:16:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That is unprofessional, but neither sexist nor misogynistic. Male heterosexuality is not a synonym for sexism or misogyny. If there’s any sexism here, it’s yours; you are essentially claiming that about 90% of men are _ **born** _ sexist and misogynistic, since that’s about how many men are straight. I certainly didn’t get the impression that msmith thinks that heterosexuality is sexist. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/59 "2009-11-02T20:21:23Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It seems to me that you’re using he lack of people skills as a way of identifying nerds, making this a bit of self-fulfilling definition. I work with 30-40 engineers and ops folks, all of whom I would classify as nerds based on their technical skills. Of these, I’d say 3-4 have a lack of people skills. I’ve worked with upwards of 300+ developers at one point in my career and my experience is similar. There was a small number of people with poor social skills, but for the vast majority of developers, they had fine people skills. The same holds true where I work now, though there is a smaller number of developers. > [@msmith537](#): > > If you are and your friends are sitting around your cubicle gawking at a Maxim spread of the girls from Battlestar Galactica in bikinis going on and on about how you would like to “tap that ass” and so on and annoying your female coworkers (and probably your mature male coworkers as well), that is considered sexist and misogynyst behavior. It is neither sexist nor misogynistic. It IS, however, unprofessional and likely a violation of a company’s sexual harrassment policies. The people who had poor social skills had poor skills regardless of who they were dealing with, male or female. I know the kind of dismissive attitudes toward women in tech fields exists, but my own experience is that it isn’t very prevalent. Note: I’m 48, male and have been in the computer industry for 28 years. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810/60 "2009-11-02T20:28:18Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > I certainly didn’t get the impression that msmith thinks that heterosexuality is sexist. Finding pictures of scantily clad women sexy is a normal trait for heterosexual males; she thinks that is sexist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-sort-of-nerdy-misogyny/515810.md?page=4)