# Is there a strong Christian backlash to Trump's sedition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895 "2021-01-19T16:45:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/81 "2021-01-24T18:15:01Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The congregation of the Methodist church I attend is (by my estimate) 25% hard core Trump, 50% Trump supporters/sympatiizers and 25% Progressives. And you’re claiming that the views of one church today are indicative of what all American Christians today believe, let alone of what all Christians over the past 2000 years have believed? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/82 "2021-01-24T18:39:08Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > And you’re claiming that the views of one church today are indicative of what all American Christians today believe, let alone of what all Christians over the past 2000 years have believed I am not seeing that claim being made at all, and this thread isn’t about what all American Christians believe. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/83 "2021-01-24T19:15:44Z")
Then what’s the point of describing what the views of one church are? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/84 "2021-01-24T19:25:23Z")
To point out the views of that one church, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/85 "2021-01-24T19:29:29Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The reality is that Christianity consists of life styles that codify local social norms. > > The congregation of the Methodist church I attend is (by my estimate) 25% hard core Trump, 50% Trump supporters/sympatiizers and 25% Progressives. Hard core would be like the lady member who brought a pistol to wednesday night quilting just to show that guns are OK for Christians. These folks have a broad diversity of religious and political belief, and all are Christian. > > Evangelicals? Just a sub set that’s an easy media dog whistle. . If your point, as I understand it, is that the views of Christian congregations in general reflect those of their communities, and their politics don’t differ appreciably, I’d say you’re right - with the notable **exception** of American white evangelicalism, which is far more conservative than the American norm generally. And while its origins may be in Southern and rural communities that have the same norms as their evangelicals, there are white evangelical congregations in suburban communities all across America, and those congregations retain the conservatism of their denomination/movement, while differing substantially from the increasingly blue suburbs where they’re situated. White evangelicals really are a political standout among American religious groupings in this way, and that’s what makes them noticeable. It’s not just that they’re “an easy media dog whistle.” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/86 "2021-01-24T19:31:05Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > > [@TriPolar](#): > > > > I’m talking about people who strongly tie their politics and Christian identity. > > But that’s not what you wrote. You said that “. . . Christians are sneaky, hypocritical, and dishonest . . .” You didn’t limit it to Moderating: What they actually wrote was “As a political group, Christians…” which definitely limits it. So you quoted him out of the context that clearly limited it to politicized Christians and then accused them of not limiting it. This is jerky behavior; please cease. No warning. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/87 "2021-01-24T19:38:25Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > White evangelicals really are a political standout among American religious groupings in this way, and that’s what makes them noticeable. It’s not just that they’re “an easy media dog whistle.” For the most part, they _hold_ that whistle. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/88 "2021-01-24T19:54:02Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Here’s an article saying that the political (and even the religious) views of a large proportion of present-day white Americans who belong to certain churches that call themselves evangelical (and are often not affiliated with any denomination) are often quite different than anything that might be called a traditional Christian worldview; rather, those views are mostly attempts to justify their own political stances that were chosen before they made any attempt to relate them to Christian beliefs: I think that would have been an accurate statement in the late 1970s as white evangelical politics were only just becoming what they are now. But after forty years and a couple of generations of people growing up evangelical, there’s really no ‘before’ anymore: for most evangelicals under 50, political and religious beliefs have been intertwined and practically fused since they were children. And for the rest, that ‘before’ was in the distant past. (I’d also take issue with Du Mez’ description of “born-again Christians” as an older term for evangelicals: these are two different things entirely. But that’s a whole 'nother can of worms.) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/89 "2021-01-24T20:20:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > (I’d also take issue with Du Mez’ description of “born-again Christians” as an older term for evangelicals: these are two different things entirely. But that’s a whole 'nother can of worms.) Definitely true. W describes himself as born again, but is anything but a Trump supporter and openly backed Biden. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/90 "2021-01-24T20:32:00Z")
I would suggest you pick up a history book. People who call themselves “Christian” don’t give a flying fuck about tenants (if they are the landlords) or christian tenets. People who call themselves “evangelical” have shown themselves to be racist first, second and last and hypocrite in between.(They even are selectively anti-choice – If it it their choice its ok, If a black lady wants an abortion they are murdering babies.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/91 "2021-01-24T20:39:43Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > People who call themselves “Christian” don’t give a flying fuck about tenants (if they are the landlords) _Dear landlord, please don’t put a price on my soul_ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/92 "2021-01-24T20:41:46Z")
You really, really do need a “some” in there. Even for the people who call themselves “evangelical”. Go look at the second link I posted above in post #70. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/93 "2021-01-24T20:46:48Z")
I’d go with ‘most’ in the case of evangelicals (and yes, I’m quite familiar with Fred Clark’s blog). And over time, churches in general have only rarely protested wars and other state-sponsored violence. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/94 "2021-01-24T20:53:51Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > What they actually wrote was “As a political group, Christians…” which definitely limits it. Please, please, please, I’m not trying to troll you, but could you please explain to me the distinction you’re making. I honestly don’t understand it at all. The subject of the sentence didn’t change at all. Only the adverb changed. The sentence is talking about Christians. The adverb just makes it clear that it’s about the political views of Christians. It doesn’t limit the sentence to being about any particular group of Christians. It didn’t limit it to any one group of Christians. Please, please, please, please, please explain to me the distinction you’re making it. I honestly don’t understand what distinction you’re making. I can’t figure out what you’re talking about here. I’m utterly lost. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/95 "2021-01-24T21:13:04Z")
They are doing such a great job in distancing themselves from their worst specimens that I don’t feel the need. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/96 "2021-01-24T21:28:03Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The Capitol insurrection was largely Christian. Maybe because the USA is largely Christian? About 23rds is Christian, with 25% being not much of any religion, and Atheism at maybe 4%, Judaism 2%, Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam all being around 1%, and a smattering of others making up about 2%. So, the chance of any one person evincing their faith is gonna be around 90% Christian, and iirc the Q-anon shaman is some sort of pagan? About 2/3rds of the people who voted for Biden are Christians. Joe is well known as a devout Catholic. Christians, _as a large group_- are no more behind trump than Biden. Sure, trump does have a odd following among _evangelical_ Christians, who see/saw him as their weapon against “baby-killing abortion”. They are blind to any other failing as long as they get their way on this one critical to them issue. This happens with quite a few single issue voters. But _Evangelical_ Christians are a small group . The Op here is tarring a large group with a broad brush. In fact, with such a broad brush and a noticeable lack of the qualifying word _Evangelical_ we are getting pretty close to bigotry here. The Ops well known outspoken Atheism could be a factor. This is like blaming Americans for the Jan 6th violence. Yes, most of them _were_ Americans, sure, but since most of _us_ are Americans it is meaningless. Even calling them “Republicans” is maybe too large a brush. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/97 "2021-01-24T21:28:32Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I think many Christians viewed Trump as a supporter of religious rights and so were pro-Trump even though they disagreed with most of his behaviors. This is not true. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/98 "2021-01-24T21:30:14Z")
[Capitol riot: Pope Francis says violence in DC must be 'condemned' - ABC7 Chicago](https://abc7chicago.com/pope-francis-the-capitol-riot-building/9503449/#:~:text=Pope%20Francis%20says%20violence%20at%20the%20US%20Capitol%20must%20be%20'condemned'&text=%22Unfortunately%2C%20we%20can%20now%20add,in%20infamy%2C%22%20said%20Sen). _# Pope Francis says violence at the US Capitol must be ‘condemned’… Pope Francis said in a recent interview that the violence that broke out at the United States Capitol building on Wednesday “must be condemned.”_ _“Violence is always like this,” the Pope said in comments to Italy’s Canale 5 channel that [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/pope-francis-us-capitol-violence/index.html) translated to English, adding that that there are violent outbreaks in every country’s history “and no people can boast of not having one day a case of violence.”_ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/99 "2021-01-24T21:32:20Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > There was certainly support for violence from the Catholic Church, whose slaughter made the holocaust pale in comparison Violence has also been perpetuated by the Muslims, Jews, Hindus and so forth. In fact, let’s just say **People** do a lot of violence no matter their religion. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/100 "2021-01-24T22:07:51Z")
**Modhat** : I’m very close to a warning here. Broadbrush attacks against “Christians” is close to hate speech and close to trolling. Please stop. (I’m not picking on you, I’m just the one responding to the flag) What Exit? _This is just a guidance, not a warning. Nothing on your permanent record._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895.md?page=6)