# Is there a strong Christian backlash to Trump's sedition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895 "2021-01-19T16:45:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/141 "2021-01-27T16:20:51Z")
Thank you. So far that is as close to what I am looking for as I can hope. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/142 "2021-01-28T16:01:31Z")
Here’s an article that was posted over in the QAnon thread: > **[Charismatics are at war with each other over failed prophecies of Trump victory](https://religionunplugged.com/news/2021/1/12/charismatics-are-at-war-with-each-other-over-failed-prophecies-of-trump-victory?fbclid=IwAR3ARpZzaQIJzOuGZvbCy43Kr59xAoqIrTE2rdF8vVPpQ51vUcPeo2OwJ8U)** > > A day of reckoning has come for modern-day “prophets” in the Pentecostal/charismatic movement who falsely foretold a victory for President Trump in 2020. Privately and on social media, these prophets and their thousands of followers are slugging it... > [@](#): > > A day of reckoning has come for modern-day “prophets” in the Pentecostal/charismatic movement who falsely foretold a victory for President Trump in 2020. > > One charismatic leader calls it a “rebuke from the Lord.” > > A major speaker in the movement calls it “the largest scale deception I’ve seen in 49 years of following Jesus.” > > And yet another pastor is blasting parts of the movement as being “sick.” > > Privately and on social media, these prophets and their thousands of followers are slugging it out in an orgy of self-blame, recriminations and fantastical hopes that somehow before Jan. 20, God will bring about a victory for Trump. > > Others who’ve apologized for getting it wrong have gotten accusations, curses and even death threats. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/143 "2021-01-28T16:17:03Z")
Yep, numerous conservative prophets got the 2020 election wrong just like they got the 2018 midterm prophecies wrong. Conveniently they always predicted victory for the side they _wanted_ to see win. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/144 "2021-01-28T16:27:33Z")
At least one conservative evangelical pastor has blamed the defeat of Trump on (not making this up) God being displeased with Trump’s support of gay rights. 🙄 > **[Pastor Scott Lively Claims God Let Trump Lose Election for Being Pro-LGBT](https://www.newsweek.com/pastor-scott-lively-claims-god-allowed-trump-lose-election-being-pro-lgbt-1564692)** > > Most national and international LGBTQ rights groups consider Donald Trump to be the most anti-LGBTQ president of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/145 "2021-01-28T16:43:37Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > How come that non-denominational aspect is often linked to being right-wing? Why would they often overlap? That is part of the historical development of Protestantism in 19th century America. Probably a thread hijack to get deeply into it, but there is a kind of logical progression of ‘reforms’ which valued charismatic leadership and personal revelation over dogmas and creeds. The resistance to governmental bodies much more distant than the congregation’s own elders has given rise to smaller and smaller units. This built-in rebelliousness and local tribalism was most congenial to rural white communities with antecedents in Scotland and northern Britain, such as in Appalachia and the smallholder class in the South. This culture is the hearth of reactionary knownothingism that we suffer from today. Religion in these particular communities is a social binder and loyalty test to a degree I believe unexcelled by any other Christian bodies in the US. A friend of mine who spent some decades as an Evangelical die hard and then returned to her childhood Catholicism told me that she saw her former friends’ faces harden and go blank when she told them the news. She said she changed in their eyes from a beloved respected compatriot to an enemy in the blink of eye. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/146 "2021-01-28T16:49:14Z")
Y’know, I could not be a member of any of these churches as I would have soon started asking questions about how come this “God”'s plans and goals keep being stymied by actions or even just attitudes of mere humans. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/147 "2021-01-29T11:13:05Z")
Also, when someone prophesies about a future event, they’re saying that God told them X **will happen** , not God told them that God **wants** X to happen. Presumably (within their belief system) when God tells Mr. or Ms. Prophet, “X will happen,” God is quite aware of human obstacles, and is saying it’s going to happen regardless. So when Mr. or Ms. Prophet tells the believers that God told them X will happen, and it doesn’t happen, ISTM that (again, within their belief system) at best, they’re an unreliable witness to God’s words: that God may be speaking to them sometimes, but they can’t tell the difference between God speaking to them, and their own gut feelings or whatever. Their ability to discern God’s message is flawed. (You’d think that if God’s in the business of choosing prophets to give specific messages to people today, he’d be capable of choosing prophets that weren’t afflicted by such a significant disability. Or capable of getting his message through in a way that could not be mistaken for anything else.) Worst case, of course, is they’re liars. (True regardless of belief system.) > [@Gyrate](#): > > Pastor Robert Jeffress, who was a strong evangelical Trump supporter, has taken a surprisingly circumspect approach to Biden: Interesting. Back in mid-November, Fred Clark [cited Jeffress as one of those who’d prophesied a Trump win](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2020/11/11/keeping-false-prophets-accountable/): > So what does it mean that so many prominent white evangelical Americans “prophesied” that God had spoken to them, assuring them that Donald Trump would be re-elected? > > Paula White said God had told her this. So did Jim Bakker. So did Robert Jeffress, and Curt Landry, and Michele Bachmann, and Kat Kerr, and Frank Amedia, and Dutch Sheets, and Janet Porter, and Steve Strang. And they were all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/148 "2021-01-29T12:53:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Privately and on social media, these prophets and their thousands of followers are slugging it out in an orgy of self-blame, recriminations and fantastical hopes Is it wrong of me to find this hilarious, in a “People’s Front of Judea/ The SHOE is the sign!” kind of way? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/149 "2021-01-30T02:02:02Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Is it wrong of me to find this hilarious, in a “People’s Front of Judea/ The SHOE is the sign!” kind of way? Well, I’m over here rooting for injuries, so I’m probably not the best person to ask. 😸 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/150 "2021-01-30T05:57:02Z")
Following up on the OP, there’s some discussion in this article: > **[Opinion | Trump's loss fueled (and united) the two most racist myths about...](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-rise-fall-unified-two-most-pernicious-racist-myths-ncna1255880)** > > White Christian nationalism and the "Lost Cause" myth used to exist in opposition to each other. But now they're a singular danger to our democracy. > [@](#): > > It is important to recognize that not all conservative white evangelicals are white Christian nationalists. Some, such as Peter Wehner and Russell Moore, rejected Trumpism and white Christian nationalism from the very beginning. What’s more, a serious and self-critical discussion of white Christian nationalism is taking place among some conservative white Christians — prompted in no small part by the work of Black theologians such as Jemar Tisby and Esau McCaulley. > > **Recently, the faculty of Wheaton College — the “evangelical Harvard” —released a [statement](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sE_7A7iMYhQtRd1O0VhF3CwJEODPm70RF_cueq3_PxY/edit) denouncing Christian nationalism and white supremacism as heresies.** While conservative evangelicals will often disagree with secular progressives on matters of policy, a good many still strongly agree with them on the question of polity: democratic or not. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/151 "2021-01-30T18:51:14Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Is it wrong of me to find this hilarious, in a “People’s Front of Judea/ The SHOE is the sign!” kind of way? Follow the gourd, splitter! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/152 "2021-01-30T18:59:21Z")
In general, anytime these false prophets are wrong, they use one of the following approaches: - Ignore it and move on, hoping their followers will let go and not make a big deal out of it (which many oblige) - Postpone and kick the can down the road (“well, that date was wrong, but it WILL happen, just keep waiting for (insert new date)”) - Claim that it **did** happen anyway, just not in the way prophesied (“Oh, Trump DID win the election, it’s just that the results make it look like Biden won”) - Blame other people’s lack of energy for the prophecy failing to come true (“Trump _would_ have won if people had prayed harder and showed more energy, but your lackluster effort cost the win”) - Shrug it off (“a prophet doesn’t have to be right every time”) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/153 "2021-01-30T23:28:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > - Ignore it and move on, hoping their followers will let go and not make a big deal out of it (which many oblige) > - Postpone and kick the can down the road (“well, that date was wrong, but it WILL happen, just keep waiting for (insert new date)”) > - Claim that it **did** happen anyway, just not in the way prophesied (“Oh, Trump DID win the election, it’s just that the results make it look like Biden won”) > - Blame other people’s lack of energy for the prophecy failing to come true (“Trump _would_ have won if people had prayed harder and showed more energy, but your lackluster effort cost the win”) > - Shrug it off (“a prophet doesn’t have to be right every time”) In fact, these are the standard ways that anybody who makes an inaccurate prediction or forecast tries to explain why the prediction or forecast is apparently incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/154 "2021-01-31T03:26:08Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Relirious Right Love it, awesome mashup of “Delerious” & “Religious.” 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/155 "2021-01-31T03:44:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So when Mr. or Ms. Prophet tells the believers that God told them X will happen, and it doesn’t happen, ISTM that (again, within their belief system) at best, they’re an unreliable witness to God’s words: that God may be speaking to them sometimes, but they can’t tell the difference between God speaking to them, and their own gut feelings or whatever. Their ability to discern God’s message is flawed. What’s funny is that such a test is described in the Bible itself: > **Deuteronomy 18:21-22 (NIV)** > > You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” [22] If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. I’m tempted to post this on my Facebook after I saw people (on other people’s pages) trying make excuses for how Trump truly is God’s prophet and has a mantle on him. (The current logic is that there is “Trump the man” and “Trump the position.” Yes, really.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/156 "2021-01-31T04:07:28Z")
I’ve tried that approach and it rolls right off like water off a duck’s back. I got suspended from a charismatic Christian message board last December, in fact, for pointing out that all the prophets who claimed Trump would be reelected were, by that Deuteronomy definition, false prophets. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/157 "2021-01-31T04:24:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > **Deuteronomy 18:21-22 (NIV)** > > You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” [22] If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. Here’s another one: > “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. > > Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?’ > > Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you evildoers!’ > >         – Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/158 "2021-01-31T04:57:20Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Here’s another one: > > > “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. > > > > Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?’ > > > > Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you evildoers!’ > > > >         – Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV) Yep. Problem is, if you use that one, they’ll claim Trump was doing God’s will, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/159 "2021-02-01T07:11:05Z")
I was reading a cite from **Ann\_Hedonia** when I came across this bit: > **[A Christian Insurrection](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/evangelicals-catholics-jericho-march-capitol/617591/)** > > Many of those who mobbed the Capitol on Wednesday claimed to be enacting God’s will. > “I certainly did not believe, or have any anticipation, that [Trump] would take matters to the extent that have become clear over the last few weeks,” Albert Mohler, the head of an influential evangelical seminary in Kentucky who [hopes](https://www.kentuckytoday.com/stories/mohler-first-candidate-announced-for-2021-sbc-president,28655) to be the next president of the Southern Baptist Convention, told me. Mohler opposed Trump in 2016, citing what he saw as the candidate’s poor character. But last spring, he publicly [declared](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2020/04/16/souther-baptist-albert-mohler-to-vote-trump/) that he would support Trump in 2020 and vote for Republican presidential candidates for the rest of his life. “We are undoubtedly in an agonizing moment, in which evangelical Christians who supported Donald Trump now find ourselves in the position of being tremendously embarrassed by this most recent behavior,” he told me. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895/160 "2021-02-01T09:21:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > (The current logic is that there is “Trump the man” and “Trump the position.” Yes, really.) “Trump the man” has the gold fringe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-strong-christian-backlash-to-trumps-sedition/930895.md?page=9)