# Is there a such thing a the "gay gene"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292 "2000-10-25T19:21:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/141 "2000-10-27T01:17:46Z")
Um, Rook, have you honestly never heard of cunnilingus? ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/142 "2000-10-27T01:25:24Z")
> [@](#): > > That was an extreme example at the least but, some inmates leave prison and become active in the gay community. And how do you know that men haven’t found true love in jail? You’re damn right it was an extreme example. Your example implied that ALL prisoners who have sex with men in prison are doing it because they are homosexual. I never said none havent found true love in jail. Havent you thought that these men who find love in jail were gay to begin with? Again, stop putting words into my post that I did not say. > [@](#): > > Just because you’ve heard horror stories of rape and sodomy doesn’t mean every situation was like that. Did I say some weren’t? No. I never said every situation was like that. However, i doubt that most are about love or attraction. That’s why I used the quantifier “most” in my second sentence. > [@](#): > > There have been instances of sailor choosing a gay lifestyle after long venture at sea. How do you know they weren’t gay before they got into the military (I assume you are talking about military)? Probably no heterosexual men I know would get into a gay lifestyle AFTER being segregated from women. Actually in the military (US at least) you cannot be out, or else you get discharged! I have actually talked to a guy in the navy who is closeted in order to keep his job. He’s told me no one knows. So, this argument holds no water at all. Can you give me sources that I can look at to affirm what you are saying, or is this just another part of your pet theory? Also how the hell does that relate to prisoners? > [@](#): > > What about experimentation? Basically to see what it’s like without making a positive choice. I’m sure some have chosen homosexuality after an enjoyable gay experience Have you ever thought that these people had conflicting feelings and _wanted to be sure_ they were one way or another? I know of no one who says “Gee, i think i’ll experiment with a guy/girl and if I like it, i’ll pick homosexuality!”. Just because some _may_ choose doesn’t mean ALL of us choose (and i’d bet that those who choose are microscopic minority). I haven’t been with a man OR woman and i’m pretty damn sure that I am gay. I’ve also pretty much known I was gay since puberty. All of these examples you give do not in my opinion prove at all that your theory that “it’s a choice” is correct. Some does NOT equal all. Stop saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/143 "2000-10-27T01:29:03Z")
My definition of what’s “natural” is probably different then what was thought. I believe you take it as an “occurrence in nature,” while I use it in the sense of what you were born with. Our limitations. Like what nature gave you. Not just physically but also mentally. Space isn’t natural for humans. The effect of zero-gravity on our muscle structure after prolonged periods of time is damaging. Therefore, space exploration isn’t natural to the human anatomy. The human body has an internal clock that tells it when you should sleep and when you should get up. Traveling through time zones gives your body a misrepresentation of time, jet lag. Therefore, traveling great distance in a short period of time is unnatural. Human senses are damaged from high decibels of sound from extremely loud music, and many other man made things because it was designed to withstand loud, excessive noise. After reaching 20g’s in flight, the human body will lose consciousness because it’s unnatural for us to be under that kind of pressure. I believe that humans were designed for a specific purpose but also given the freedom to veer off in different directions. But in it’s natural state, the human body has many limitations that inventions and discoveries have overcome. It’s unnatural for a human to have a pace maker. It’s an ingenious device but to have a foreign object in your body isn’t natural. During organ transplants, sometimes the recipient’s body rejects the organ because it wasn’t part of its original design. I know I might’ve been a little off on some of my examples but for the most part, I’m sure you understand my point now. I wasn’t EVER saying that homosexuality is wrong OR bad. Just that human anatomy doesn’t support it during birth. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/144 "2000-10-27T01:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*Beakerxf and andygirl > > Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t lesbian sex involve instruments such like dildo’s?I do realize there is much more to homosexuals then just sex and also that there can be a lot more understand of each other in a homosexual relationship. But the act of sex itself generally needs some “help” to simulate heterosexual intercourse. The human anatomy is basically the same I’ve read that the vagina has a design to specifically accommodate a penis. I could be wrong. I sure your going to disagree with and end up getting some material of the web. > \*\* Again with the stereotypes. Gay men and lesbians do not simulate heterosexual sex. If that was the case, my boyfriend would have a headache all the time and I would sleep with hookers. Also, all lesbians and gay men do not use dildos. There are many things we do, which are NOT simulating heterosexual sex. There’s fisting, analingus, and a host of other things we do which are VERY satisfying. So what if the vagina can accomodate a penis? A vagina can also pump out a baby, but just because it can doesn’t mean it has to. Your ass can put out a piece of excrement that is very large in diameter, and thus can accept something equally thick. This is obviously how your head got up there and refuses to hear anything anyone has to say which contracdicts you. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/145 "2000-10-27T01:41:00Z")
Now your putting words in my mouth. I explained earlier that the choice isn’t for ALL homosexuals. I was simply using those examples as proof that there are homosexuals who choose to be homosexual. We’re arguing about wording, man, but saying the same damn thing. We both agree some are homosexual because of different circumstances and some have the choice. I think a lot has to do with why someone is homosexual. Did you even read the comments before this? Do that first and then get back with me…… ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/146 "2000-10-27T01:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > **I was simply using those examples as proof that there are homosexuals who choose to be homosexual.** I think you are confusing a bisexual who chooses (at the moment) to have a homosexual relationship with a homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/147 "2000-10-27T01:45:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*Did you even read the comments before this? Do that first and then get back with me…… \*\* Take your own advice, hypocrite. You blather on and on, saying and restating the same thing even though facts prove you wrong. This thread is the only one you have posted on in the whole SDMB. I really think this is a troll who is getting off on his game. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/148 "2000-10-27T01:54:35Z")
You must still not understand what I am saying! Sure you can do a variety of things (which I find rather disgusting) but that’s not even CLOSE to the point I was trying to establish. You must be used to people poking fun at you because you’re “different” and that’s the reason you insist on varying of what my point is. It was ALREADY proven that the anus is NOT designed for sex. TRUE? It was ALREADY established that the vagina IS, TRUE? now put 1+1 together and you’ll have the answer. Human anatomy suggests heteorsexual sex. THAT’S MY POINT! Everything else your saying has nothing to do with me ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/149 "2000-10-27T01:59:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*It was ALREADY proven that the anus is NOT designed for sex. TRUE? It was ALREADY established that the vagina IS, TRUE? \*\* I must have missed something. Where were either of these so-called “facts” proved? I see no evidence at all of design for any particular purpose of either the anus or the vagina. All I’ve seen you produce, so far, is **assertions** that the anus was not designed for sex and that the vagina was. Assertions are not proof. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/150 "2000-10-27T01:59:36Z")
I might be confusing the two. So homosexuals are people who know they’re gay from early childhood? What about those who marry, have children, then come out the closet later on in life? Are they considered Bi because they were once attracted to a women? So are Bi-Sexuals a whole different story? ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/151 "2000-10-27T02:07:42Z")
a quote from edwino: A Geneticist and a physician student who teaches Human Sexuality “No matter how good it feels, the anus was not designed for sex. It was designed for defecation.” the fact that the heterosexual intercourse is necessary for procreation (excluding artificial insemination) should answer any questions about the design of the vagina. if your unwilling to except the vagina as being designed for sexual intercourse, then your just being stubborn about the facts ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/152 "2000-10-27T02:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*I might be confusing the two. So homosexuals are people who know they’re gay from early childhood? What about those who marry, have children, then come out the closet later on in life? Are they considered Bi because they were once attracted to a women? So are Bi-Sexuals a whole different story? \*\* A “pure homosexual” is someone who has absolutely no attraction whatsoever for any person of the opposite sex and cannot bring himself or herself to have sex with such a person under any circumstance (short of force). You can probably figure out what a pure heterosexual is. Most people are not purely homosexual or purely heterosexuals. Many homosexuals have sex with members of the opposite sex, generally because they realize it is socially expected of them to do so, and thus deny their own desires in order to preserve their social standing. This doesn’t mean they necessarily enjoy it all that much. My ex’s father is gay, but fathered two children nonetheless during the period during which he pretended not to be gay to satisfy family and social expectations. Many people have some capacity to be sexually attracted to members of either sex. People who are equally likely to be attracted to members of either sex (that is, people for whom the sex of a potential partner is not an overriding factor in selection) are called “bisexual”; such a person might choose a partner of either sex. However, such a person does not choose to be bisexual. People choose their sexual partners, but they do not choose their sexual preferences any more than they choose their genders. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/153 "2000-10-27T02:12:09Z")
i’m positive EVERYONE know’s exactly the point i’m trying to reach but have too much pride to admit it. I assume everyone who reads this threat has a pretty high amount of intelligence and i feel like i’m repeating over and over again but nobody wants to admit they understand what i’m saying ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/154 "2000-10-27T02:12:30Z")
Rook: Is vaginal intercourse between a man and a woman the only “natural” way to express physical love, in you opinion? This is an important point to your antomical arguement, but I don’t believe you addressed it. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/155 "2000-10-27T02:14:55Z")
I’ve never heard the phase, “pure homosexual” before and appreciate this new bit of knowledge. So in your opinion, is the majority of the ga community purely homosexual? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/156 "2000-10-27T02:15:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*a quote from edwino: A Geneticist and a physician student who teaches Human Sexuality > “No matter how good it feels, the anus was not designed for sex. It was designed for defecation.” > > the fact that the heterosexual intercourse is necessary for procreation (excluding artificial insemination) should answer any questions about the design of the vagina. if your unwilling to except the vagina as being designed for sexual intercourse, then your just being stubborn about the facts\*\* At the risk of turning this into a theology discussion, if “the anus was designed for defecation” and “the vagina was designed for intercourse”, who designed them? I dispute that any part of the human body was designed for anything at all. Adapted through evolution, yes. Designed, no. And there is plenty of evidence that the adaption is less than perfect. What “purpose” does the hymen serve? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/157 "2000-10-27T02:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*I’ve never heard the phase, “pure homosexual” before and appreciate this new bit of knowledge. So in your opinion, is the majority of the ga community purely homosexual? \*\* If you’re not familiar with Kinsey’s 0 to 6 scale of sexual preference identification, then you have no business even discussing this topic since that’s like a seminal (no pun intended) work in the study of human sexuality. I can’t speak for the gay community. I’m not even sure that there **is** a “gay community” and in any case if there is I’m not a member of it. ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/158 "2000-10-27T02:23:42Z")
Rook, have you never heard of homosexuals marrying because of societal pressures, or a feeling that they can “cure” their orientation by being with a woman? You seemed to assume that all people marry because of sexual attraction. That is not always the case. ---
**Author:** ![Rook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Rook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rook)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/159 "2000-10-27T02:24:30Z")
I respect your question very much and would be glad to respond to it. But before I answer I’d like you to read over my interpretation of the word “natural.” I wrote it a few comments back. Now, if we’re using the definition of natural in the sense of, “occurs in nature,” then no I don’t feel that’s the only way to express physical love. If we’re using the definition of natural as, “what we’re born with physically and mentally,” then yes, I think that’s the only way to express physical love, only because of anatomical limitations. Thus this goes back to my opinion that man was anatomically designed for heterosexual sex ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2000, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292/160 "2000-10-27T02:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rook \* > \*\*If we’re using the definition of natural as, “what we’re born with physically and mentally,” then yes, I think that’s the only way to express physical love, only because of anatomical limitations. \*\* You’re in a circular argument here. You’re asserting that “natural” is “that which we are born with physically and mentally” and then, essentially, saying that heterosexuality is natural because it’s natural, but homosexuality is not natural because it’s not natural. That’s not logic, it’s bald assertion. You don’t have any proof that homosexuals aren’t “physically and mentally born” designed to have homosexual relations in adulthood; the only evidence you have is the assertion that such relations are unnatural based on a vague argument that the body is physically “designed” to have heterosexual relations. Even if, arguendo, we accept that the body is “designed” to have heterosexual relations, this doesn’t support the “mental” half of your definition of “natural”. The bulk of the evidence is that the mental aspect of sexual orientation (attraction) is not subject to the conscious control of the individual, and is probably mostly or entirely determined at or before birth. The “physical incompatibility” between members of the same sex doesn’t appear to create a barrier between individuals who are attracted to each other. I can’t see anything unnatural in being attracted to people who are you are naturally attracted to – even if that means that you are unlikely to reproduce with that person. On top of this, heterosexual couples often engage in anal sex, cunnilingus, anilingus, fisting, oral sex, and in fact the entire catalog of “deviant” practices that homosexual couples are known to engage in. Is it “unnatural” for them to do so? Why or why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-a-the-gay-gene/38292.md?page=9)