# Is there a such thing as rude moderating? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 1, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601 "2014-08-01T20:32:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/61 "2014-08-03T12:30:42Z")
Dex, that is pretty disingenuous. "As posters, we have the same rights to be snarky as any other posters. " Sure, but other posters don’t have the rights to close a thread, ban people or whatever AND abuse them at the same time with no comeback. I don’t believe Mods are any different from ten years ago- I believe the same topics which emerge have a sharper edge- so I’m not protecting any viewpoint. Nevertheless, I believe discussions of Mod decisions should have stayed in the Pit where a robust decision could occur, rather than the Star Chamber of ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/62 "2014-08-03T13:30:05Z")
Well, it’s hardly a star chamber. It’s available to all to participate as opposed to being a closed and secretive group. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/63 "2014-08-03T17:50:21Z")
Seems to me there’s something a bit unfair when the mods can snark doing their moderating, but the members can’t reply in kind because that is commenting on moderating. Can’t Pit a mod for moderating. Now the “good old days” where discussions of moderation occurred in the Pit set the tone of how moderating is done, but that was a different time with different circumstances. Specifically, the members could reply in kind. That’s off limits now. It seems to me with the current rules of not pitting moderators for their acts of moderation, the moderators should eliminate the rudeness and snark from their moderating. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/64 "2014-08-03T19:58:20Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > ETA: Does anybody have any memories of pit threads and posts being deleted in the early days as per splatterpunk’s claims? Repeated for emphasis. > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > You had a very quantifiable analysis of the threads earlier. FTR, I presented a half-completed analysis in the other thread. I wanted flexibility to make adjustments on the fly and I wanted to swat down certain pesky objections (which haven’t been made as of yet.[sup]1[/sup]) Dex indicated that he wasn’t keen on continuing the hijack of that thread, so I didn’t. But I did spend more time on the data after reviewing Giraffe’s feedback. I might be able to incorporate **splatterpunk** ’s concerns, but I need more information. > [@](#): > > But how are you quantifying “most people” in your comments here? And how do you know what they understood and what they now understand? For certain? I don’t. And the quantitative analysis only provides a piece of the puzzle anyway. Another poster in the other thread (Munch, IIRC) also agreed that the feel in 2001 was different back then. This is not remarkable: things evolve and devolve. I think I can substantiate my claims of deference back then, and it’s reasonable to infer what remains. > [@](#): > > Could you be misinterpreting people comprehending such obviousness based on some people’s lack of care or not wanting to get involved? Oh sure. Most people back then and most people now don’t bother to harass the mods. They may have a range of reasons for doing so. I suppose we could compile a list. But I think my characterization provides a reasonable spin on the behaviors of the 3 eras. > [@](#): > > Why is it all to the good to smackdown recalcitrant members? Well, entertainment value is an obvious consideration. But as I see it, the board has a mission and its mission is to fight ignorance. It’s not to adjudicate moderator behavior or establish “Fair”. This isn’t a playground – or rather in many ways it is but that’s not its central mission. Step back for a minute. In my experience most message boards deal with problem posters in a more perfunctory manner. They sometimes joke that they have assumed dictatorship, but mostly what they provide is radio silence. You don’t get the detailed thinking that mods provide here. I suspect that’s because our unpaid moderators actually _do_ think of themselves as posters, fellow soldiers in the fight against ignorance. The other factor is that the verbal ability of the mods at this website is pretty high. Way higher than my own anyway. Let me paraphrase something from another board (no citation): “Discussion of administrative policies can be diverting but it is also at odds with _getting shit done._” That is not the framework that is practiced here. Some day it may be: it certainly has some justification. Personally, I can handle a range of strategies in the battle. > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Interesting, the wide range of analogies of what a moderator is. IIRC, we’ve been compared to traffic cops, to judges, to parents, to teachers, to hall monitors, to sanitation engineers, to robotic word-searchers, and to sushi chefs. All such fail… Well sure, none of those characters wear jackboots. Sheesh! [sup]1[/sup]eg “Correlation does not imply causality”, or “Cherry picking”. These would be weak sauce. Correlation provides _evidence_ of causality and I welcome other possible interpretations of the data. And I outlined my methodology in detail precisely to address the cherry picking concern. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/65 "2014-08-03T23:51:50Z")
In the particular case of the Pit thread, I just saw it as the mods responding back in kind. You insulted the mods, they should at least be able to snark back at you. There have occasionally been other such situations, but my naive analysis is that it’s a lot better than it used to be. I usually only see it in regards to people being banned for trolling or insults, where, again, I see it as response in kind–in this case, them responding in a way the posters wish they could. The main rude issue I still see involves not snark like in the Pit thread, but impugning the character of the poster. Sometimes the mods seem to see mistakes made out of frustration as calculated attempts to break the rules or annoy people. Even if that is what you believe is happening, I don’t think stating it is usually all that helpful. The majority of the time, such issues are not going to be deliberate. And, even when they are, there’s usually another way to deal with it. If nothing else, you can just say, for example. “You are coming across as if you are posting just to annoy the mods,” rather than “Stop posting just to annoy the mods.” Both may seem to be about behavior at first glance, but the latter is also about motives. And if that is not my motive, it comes off as insulting. And, if it is my motive, you’ve just let me know that I’ve succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/66 "2014-08-04T00:11:03Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > To the OP, those examples are nothing… there’s a mod here that straight up called a poster an asshole and then just slapped her own wrist for it. On another forum a moderator gets by with saying F#$k -you etc where as just a poster isn’t allowed to post shyt. I find so far in my association here a lack of over bearing moderators. Are they paid here. Or all friends of the groom? ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/67 "2014-08-04T01:32:59Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well, entertainment value is an obvious consideration. But as I see it, the board has a mission and its mission is to fight ignorance. It’s not to adjudicate moderator behavior or establish “Fair”. This isn’t a playground – or rather in many ways it is but that’s not its central mission. > > Step back for a minute. In my experience most message boards deal with problem posters in a more perfunctory manner. They sometimes joke that they have assumed dictatorship, but mostly what they provide is radio silence. You don’t get the detailed thinking that mods provide here. I suspect that’s because our unpaid moderators actually _do_ think of themselves as posters, fellow soldiers in the fight against ignorance. The other factor is that the verbal ability of the mods at this website is pretty high. Way higher than my own anyway. I agree with you that the moderation at the SDMB is better than any moderation I’ve experienced at any other message board. I also agree that one of the reasons for that is the level of verbal ability of the mods that allows for that higher standard. At other message boards, the level of moderation is constrained by the mods’ ability to explain why they’re taking a certain action. On most message boards I’ve posted on, that level is comparatively low. But if the entertainment value is an obvious consideration in using snark, then using your logic, wouldn’t allowing posters to snark back double the entertainment value? Also, if the goal is not to establish what is “fair” behavior on the part of the mods, why are mod complaints allowed in this forum? If the mods are allowed to behave in any way they choose (which happens on some message boards), there wouldn’t need to be a place where people can place mod complaints. I think that one of the reasons that the modding at the SDMB is great is _because_ of the mods’ willingness to answer questions put to them by the posters and attempt to be fair, consistent and explanatory. I think they do a great job of it. Their patience and tolerance amaze me sometimes. btw, I did see your half-completed analysis of the threads in that other thread. In that thread, you seemed to want to base your conclusions on some evidence, whereas in this thread, your generalizations seemed much more biased. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/68 "2014-08-04T03:30:35Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > But if the entertainment value is an obvious consideration in using snark, then using your logic, wouldn’t allowing posters to snark back double the entertainment value? Please realize that I was characterizing an era that has passed. And no, part of the hilarity was reading the utter bewilderment combined with outrage by posters who had received the stern smackdown by manhattan in GQ. The policies then were probably unsustainable, but remember that they were still feeling them out. Consider that manhattan modded GQ _alone_ for many years while holding down a job as a Wall Street trader. Now 5 handle the task. It was a riveting battle between the teeming millions and manhattan’s sanity, and eventually the latter gave way. > [@](#): > > Also, if the goal is not to establish what is “fair” behavior on the part of the mods, why are mod complaints allowed in this forum? Beats me. My point though was that the standard should be something along the lines of “Reasonable” or “Workable” rather than “Best”. Here’s why: there are a lot of member proposals that make some surface sense but don’t really hold up to scrutiny. And furthermore, the mods simply have a better intuition for what works _in practice_ than the membership, including myself. Look, I’ve made a recommendation in ATMB and have had it adopted. It happens. But the signal to noise ratio here is disappointing, as is frankly some of the pettiness of the membership. There’s work to do.[sup]1[/sup] > [@](#): > > I think that one of the reasons that the modding at the SDMB is great is _because_ of the mods’ willingness to answer questions put to them by the posters and attempt to be fair, consistent and explanatory. I disagree on the former and agree that they attempt to be fair consistent and explanatory. > [@](#): > > I think they do a great job of it. Their patience and tolerance amaze me sometimes. Me too. Some of the wordsmithing on this board blows me away as well. > [@](#): > > btw, I did see your half-completed analysis of the threads in that other thread. In that thread, you seemed to want to base your conclusions on some evidence, whereas in this thread, your generalizations seemed much more biased. When I analyze the data, I feel constrained by the data. Other times I ramp up the rhetoric. I mean c’mon: “People had thicker skins back then.” Yeah, and I used to have to go to the backyard pump and fill the bucket up with electrons so I could feed the modem. You young-uns have it easy with your wall plugs and the like. 😃 [sup]1[/sup]At this point I’m told to get off my high horse. Fair enough. TPTB note correctly that this board is about building a community. My implicit point is that a strong mission statement (see the masthead) can be a powerful _and constructive_ glue. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/69 "2014-08-04T03:40:34Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Consider that manhattan modded GQ _alone_ for many years while holding down a job as a Wall Street trader. Now 5 handle the task. It was a riveting battle between the teeming millions and manhattan’s sanity, and eventually the latter gave way. No wait. It gets better. IIRC, _there was no report button_. It was believed by some that manhattan opened and scanned _every single thread_. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/70 "2014-08-04T03:42:14Z")
Get a room! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/71 "2014-08-04T16:33:19Z")
I think rudeness is unbecoming in a moderator situation. Imagine sports officiating: “Pass interference, number 24” - okay. “Pass interference, the hapless loser wearing number 24” - not okay. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/72 "2014-08-04T17:15:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think rudeness is unbecoming in a moderator situation. > > Imagine sports officiating: > > “Pass interference, number 24” - okay. > > “Pass interference, the hapless loser wearing number 24” - not okay. I don’t know, that might get me to watch football. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/73 "2014-08-04T18:39:08Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Interesting, the wide range of analogies of what a moderator is. IIRC, we’ve been compared to traffic cops, to judges, to parents, to teachers, to hall monitors, to sanitation engineers, to robotic word-searchers, and to sushi chefs. All such fail, I suspect, except to make whatever the individual’s point was. What we are, we’re posters, who have been selected to help keep the boards friendly, welcoming, reasonably polite places where people can have intelligent (or amusing) discussions. As posters, we have the same rights to be snarky as any other posters. > > When a poster feels they are being abused or insulted, they can REPORT the post. As moderators, there’s no one else to REPORT abuse or insult to. So we sometimes do respond with snark. (And the line between acceptable snarkiness and unacceptable insult is often a very fuzzy one.) I see you like Boot Camp DIs. You insult us and poke at us because you WANT to weed out the weak, those who can’t control themselves, the one issues wonders – and you want to do it _fast_ so they don’t pollute our precious internet fluids more than necessary. You poke us so we’ll punch back and then you can put the heavy duty beat-down on us. I’m just imagining you all as the DI in _Full Metal Jacket_, and we have to prove our worthiness to be in your Beloved Corp. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/74 "2014-08-04T19:03:39Z")
See, this is why I forsook my charter member status. This place is an arm of a for-profit entity. The moderators are, by choice, unpaid employees of that entity. I am willing to tolerate a certain minimal surliness from the staff in a space where I am there for free. Once even a trivial amount of money comes into play, though, I expect the staff to be uniformly and unfailingly polite, even if it is as they show me the door. In fairness to the staff here, it is only a portion of them who are petty chickenshitphiliacs. It’s the same situation you see with cops, though. The ones who aren’t close ranks with and protect the ones who are. Interesting when you consider that they are unpaid employees. Must mean a lot to them to have that title under their usernames. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/75 "2014-08-07T04:55:12Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > In the early days of the Pit, **Lynn** routinely deleted posts/threads that she found personally offensive. I haven’t been successful in obtaining clarification, but I was able to dig up a few threads. I found no evidence that any attacks on the moderation of this board were ever deleted. Of course spam has always been routinely deleted. During the first year of this message board, in August 1999, Lynn Bodoni (RIP) assumed dictatorial powers as is the custom across most message boards. Because she was… grossed out. From the OP in the Pit thread, [Ok, that’s enough](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=3280): > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Yes, this IS the BBQ Pit. However, some folks have been taking it way too far, particularly in regards to vulgarity and personal attacks, particularly to innocent third parties. From now on, if a post goes over the line, I delete or modify it. And I’m the one who draws the line. > > Lynn/SDStaff Lynn > For the Straight Dope Next post, “How about a hint as to what’s allowed and what’s not?” 😃 I’m not sure, but I _think_ the offending thread was entitled “My Pet Trolls” which according to Mr. Zambezi sounded like, “…a couple of 13 year olds trying to outgross one another. I can’t even tell what the subject is.” Ok, now fast forward to July 2001: respected poster Esprix creates the [Deleted threads?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=78832) thread. That happened just a few months after my sample frame. The OP wanted to know what the policy was. Here were the answers from moderators: > [@TVeblen](#): > > We keep a _very_ light finger on the “delete” key but sometimes it’s gotta be used for boring, masturbatory idiocies: wastes of server capacity and poster patience. > > Envision if you will (gaaack, I sound like Rod Serling) the worst sterotypical chat room excesses you’ve ever read. Beavis and Butthead played for real, without the slightest self parody or awareness. Forget basic coherence, forget content; it’s grindingly STUPID and annoying. > > I suspect we’re experiencing what journalists call the “silly season”. It’s hot, empty time weighs heavily on some folks and the results are…variable. > > Veb Lynn continued: > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Sometimes, too, you’ll come across a locked thread without explanation. Usually, but not always, it’s because the thread was started by a troll, or a troll was heavily involved in it. We don’t want to give the trolls/socks the attention they crave. I think it’s fair to say that serious threads questioning moderator behavior were not being deleted in 2001. I welcome evidence to the contrary. As of now though, I see no need for adjustments to my data analysis. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601/76 "2014-08-07T11:23:24Z")
Serious threads have never been deleted, so far as I am aware, regarding any topic. Deletion occurs when threads are spam or trolling. I think **Lynn** (RIP) deleted individual posts from time to time that were too gross for her to endure (it took a LOT to gross her out), but not full threads. When we catch a troll or a returning sock, we often delete all the threads they started in the past. The logic is that they are out to create a stir, no matter how. Leaving their threads open just encourages them to come again under a different name. We hope that causing their posts to disappear will discourage that. We have no idea whether it works, but we don’t like to “reward” such people by leaving their feces about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-such-thing-as-rude-moderating/694601.md?page=3)