# Is there a term for this death bet among friends? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240 "2011-09-05T05:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/21 "2011-09-05T22:58:04Z")
The original novel of **The Wrong Box** (co-authored by Robert Lewis Stevenson) is even better than the movie. It’s available on [Project Gutenberg.](http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1585). The first chapter gives a nice rundown on how the scheme works. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/22 "2011-09-06T04:03:45Z")
I remember my mother, back in the 50’s, reading a huge thick historical novel called _The Tontine_, so that’s how I knew the term. It was written by Thomas B. Costain. I don’t know if it is any good. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/23 "2011-09-06T17:25:44Z")
P.G. Wodehouse has a very funny story revolving around a tontine. Can’t remember which one but I’ll scrounge around for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/24 "2011-09-06T18:57:05Z")
[Archer #2.5](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1849255/) was about a tontine as well… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/25 "2011-09-06T20:09:04Z")
**Leo Bloom** , that Wodehouse novel is _The Butler Did It_. And **Malacandra** , I saw what you did there. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/26 "2011-09-06T20:42:20Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I remember my mother, back in the 50’s, reading a huge thick historical novel called _The Tontine_, so that’s how I knew the term. It was written by Thomas B. Costain. I don’t know if it is any good. > Roddy I read it, it is about like all of his stuff, written in the stodgy old style. You sort of have to grow up reading the style to enjoy it. I read a fair amount of the stuff I get from Project Gutenberg. Right now I am chewing my way through the works of [Thomas Hanshew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Hanshew). It is sort of like reading Sherlock Holmes stylewise. Costain’s Below the Salt was good, as was The Darkness and the Dawn. The Plantagenets is actually done as a non-fiction set of 4 books, somewhat sensationalized and not always accurate. FWIW, [Costain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_B._Costain) has had a couple of his novels turned into movies, The Black Rose, The Silver Chalice both get shown on AMC/TCM occasionally, the 2 that were serialized I have never seen, they are probably lost unless they got kinetiscoped. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/27 "2011-09-06T21:34:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **Leo Bloom** , that Wodehouse novel is _The Butler Did It_. For those who might be wondering if this Wodehouse novel is the source of the phrase, fuhgeddaboudit. It wasn’t published until 1957. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/28 "2011-09-07T06:12:00Z")
I learned it from the M_A_SH\* episode. It was good one with Potter being the ‘winner’ of a bottle that he and some WWI friends had brought home from France. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/29 "2011-09-08T08:04:53Z")
> [@Mixolydian](#): > > [Archer #2.5](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1849255/) was about a tontine as well… Came in here to mention this. I knew the concept before, but Archer taught me the name. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/30 "2011-09-08T08:23:57Z")
Is there any intrinsic mechanical reason why this is so vulnerable to fraud to have so fallen out of favour as an investment? As a specific investment strategy, this would make a lot of sense for a single person, people seem to obsess on the “all the money when everyone is dead” aspect but ignore the normal dividends. For a bunch of single people of approximately the same age, this would seem to present a general investment with the prospect of additional yield when you reach old age. If you were worried about murderous co-investors then just have the full amount devolve to charity or split between everyones estate after the _last_ person dies. The prospect of a lottery windfall at age 90 isn’t really the appeal of the scheme. Surely there aren’t many people who are going to be willing to murder dozens of people for an investment, and it’s not the kind of detail which is going to be overlooked by law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/31 "2011-09-10T00:49:12Z")
> [@enigmatic](#): > > Is there any intrinsic mechanical reason why this is so vulnerable to fraud to have so fallen out of favour as an investment? Well, it’s essentially an oddly variable annuity with a very small population that doesn’t necessarily adhere to actuarial tables. Plus a lottery. If you want to be assured of retirement payouts as you get older and have a chunk of money to invest, get an annuity. They’re regulated, predictable, guaranteed by the state if you do it right, and the annuity provider has significantly less incentive to murder you in your sleep. It’s really wins all around. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/32 "2011-09-10T02:12:39Z")
> [@enigmatic](#): > > Surely there aren’t many people who are going to be willing to murder dozens of people for an investment, and it’s not the kind of detail which is going to be overlooked by law enforcement. It’s not the issue that people will murder dozens. However, it’s not much of a stretch that they’ll murder one. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/33 "2011-09-10T08:16:33Z")
[Cecil on tontines](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/722/whats-with-tontines-the-odd-annuities-in-which-you-benefit-when-others-die) ---
**Author:** ![wiploc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/67e7ee/32.png) [@wiploc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wiploc)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240/34 "2011-09-16T13:40:09Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > It’s bugging me and the question is vague enough Google laughs at me. I recall some sort of “pool” or “game” that gets mentioned in popular media on the odd occasion about a bunch of (usually wealthy) people (usually “gentlemen”) essentially pooling a bunch of money, and then the last one alive gets to collect it. Sometimes the plot involves betrayal, murder, etc, and sometimes it’s just sort of a wistful bit of backstory. I’ve heard it’s a real life practice too. > > The thing is, I swear there’s a name for this practice, but it escapes me. Does anyone know? Tontine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-term-for-this-death-bet-among-friends/595240.md?page=1)