# Is there a tradition of using "Garden" to mean stadium?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 28, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877 "2011-02-28T04:02:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/21 "2011-03-01T14:00:29Z")
> [@thelabdude](#):
>
> As I think about it, the official; name of many zoos is \_\_\_\_Zoological Garden
In other languages the name for a zoo is ‘animal garden’ as in _Dierentuin_ in dutch and _Tiergarten_ in german, altough I believe they use \*Zoo \*as well.
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### Author:  [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/22 "2011-03-01T23:37:13Z")
> [@Keeve](#):
>
> > [@Cayuga](#):
> >
> > I lived three blocks from Madison Square for several years. There is a very nice park there—Madison Square Park. There is not, and I don’t think there ever was, a garden (as in flowers and such) associated with the square or the park.
>
> Wikipedia is your friend… (emphasis mine)
> Quote:
> Wikipedia: Madison Square Garden (1879)
>
> In 1876 the open-air arena was leased to band leader Patrick Gilmore, who renamed it “Gilmore’s Garden” and presented **flower shows** , beauty contests, temperance and revivial meetings, and the first Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show… After the death of Commodore Vanderbilt, who owned the site, his son William Kissam Vanderbilt took back control and announced the renaming of the arena to “Madison Square Garden” on May 31, 1879.
I stand by my statement. The boldfaced flower shows were in the arena, not the park or the square itself.
It seems that the “garden” in “Madison Square Garden” comes from its original name, “Gilmore’s Garden.” Are you suggesting that Gilmore’s Garden was named “Gilmore’s Garden” because it occasionally housed flower shows, in addition to beauty contests, temperance and revival meetings, and dog shows? Or am I missing something (HINT: Very likely)?
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### Author:  [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/23 "2011-03-02T01:22:44Z")
Not sure how much this helps you, but my older relatives referred to establishments that served alcoholic beverages as “beer gardens”. It is possible there are other meanings besides “a plot of land which is used to grow flowers”.
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### Author:  [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/24 "2011-03-02T02:04:48Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#):
>
> Not sure how much this helps you, but my older relatives referred to establishments that served alcoholic beverages as “beer gardens”. It is possible there are other meanings besides “a plot of land which is used to grow flowers”.
In southern England (and for all I know, in the rest of the UK), a “beer garden” is an outside area of a pub, usually out the back (at least it is in towns), and typically with some seating, parasols/umbrellas, flowers in pots, and possibly a lawn. Obviously how “garden-y” it is depends a lot on what sort of area the pub itself is in, and what effort the landlord puts into keeping it looking nice. The beer garden serves as a nice place to be in good weather, out in the fresh air and sunshine, and away from the gloom and fruit machines of the pub’s interior. A beer garden is also where you would tend to eat pub meals (during the summer, anyway). On the other hand, it could just be a patio with a couple of bench tables and no niceties.
Nowadays the beer garden also functions as an all-year smokers’ area, since it’s now illegal to smoke inside a pub itself.
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### Author:  [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/25 "2011-03-02T02:10:51Z")
Also, biergartens are areas in German/Austrian parks and public areas that serve huge mugs of excellent brew, along with inexpensive food during the summertime. These are indeed actually gardens, with landscaping and green space to enjoy the fresh air.
Can’t visit Germany without stopping in a biergarten for a stein or 3…
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### Author:  [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/26 "2011-03-02T02:22:23Z")
Let’s not forget Marvin Gardens.
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### Author:  [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-tradition-of-using-garden-to-mean-stadium/572877/27 "2011-03-02T03:05:37Z")
> [@Cayuga](#):
>
> I stand by my statement. The boldfaced flower shows were in the arena, not the park or the square itself.
>
> It seems that the “garden” in “Madison Square Garden” comes from its original name, “Gilmore’s Garden.” Are you suggesting that Gilmore’s Garden was named “Gilmore’s Garden” because it occasionally housed flower shows, in addition to beauty contests, temperance and revival meetings, and dog shows? Or am I missing something (HINT: Very likely)?
Yeah, I was suggesting it, but that’s all, just suggesting. I don’t know for sure what Gilmore was thinking, but it does seem that “garden” can mean (or used to mean) a lot more than just a home for flowers.
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