# Is there a universal definition of "bacon"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 26, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356 "2017-12-26T21:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/41 "2017-12-27T16:33:07Z")
I was thinking more like “Too much ain’t enough” myself. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/42 "2017-12-27T16:43:14Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Streaky bacon and back bacon are both bacon, aren’t they? That’s why they’ve both got “bacon” in the name. Not disagreeing with your point, but I don’t think that is a valid argument. “Oral sex” has “sex” in the name, but a lot of people would say it isn’t sex at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/43 "2017-12-27T16:55:39Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Makes perfect sense. It’s kinda like how no one says “Chinese food” in China. It’s just…food. I said that once when I lived in San Jose, and someone suggested a Mexican retuarant on the (shudder) East Coast… "Do you know what we call Mexican food in San Jose?\* Food. " \* 😛 ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/44 "2017-12-27T18:10:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Uh, no, not in the US. In the US, cured pork belly, sliced thin, is bacon. A round piece of cured pork, that looks like it’s a slice from the foreleg (bone removed) is called “Canadian Bacon”, but it’s not really bacon, it’s just this thing that shows up in eggs benedict. It’s tasty enough, but not actually bacon. Any other cured pork product would be “ham”. No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig. This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/45 "2017-12-27T18:16:54Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig. > > This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat. is pancetta bacon? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/46 "2017-12-27T18:28:35Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > is pancetta bacon? Sure. Why wouldn’t it be? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/47 "2017-12-27T18:36:25Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig. > > This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat. Oh, the bacon obsession is SO last year. We’ve moved on to pumpkin spice everything. Seriously, with all that’s going on here in the States, THIS is what you find difficult to understand about us? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/48 "2017-12-27T19:09:55Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Oh, the bacon obsession is SO last year. We’ve moved on to pumpkin spice everything. > > Seriously, with all that’s going on here in the States, THIS is what you find difficult to understand about us? Fair point on both counts. I realise some sort of reference to Monty Python’s Spanish Inquisition sketch would usually be appropriate here, but I can’t seem to work up much enthusiasm. Can we just take as read? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/49 "2017-12-27T19:43:21Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > So, recipes and preferences aside, does anybody have a definition of “bacon” that covers the three types mentioned so far, but excludes things like ham, sausage, kielbasa, and the like? > > D\*mnit, I WILL herd these cats, I will!!! Food definitions don’t always work that way. I found this [great article about another British food subject entirely](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-brits-talk-about-when-they-talk-about-pudding), and it made this comparison: > [@](#): > > “It’s what the linguist George Lakoff might call a ‘radial category,’” writes Murphy. “The pudding types all have some things in common with some other pudding types, but not everything, and it’s mostly a matter of convention that they continue to be called ‘pudding.’” Lakoff is a cognitive linguist who’s best known for his thesis that the specific metaphors used in language can shape cognition and perception of the world. A radial category is a category that allows a variety of different items to be grouped under a single umbrella for a variety of reasons. You can think of it sort of like a jellyfish. The body of the jellyfish is the word, and all its tentacles are the threads that make up the concept. > > There are lots of examples of radial categories. Take “bread.” Some of the tentacles here might be “a baked dough,” “contains yeast,” “consists of flour of some sort,” and “serves as the starch component of a meal.” Now think about all the weird items we refer to as breads. Banana bread contains no yeast and doesn’t rise. Cornbread also has no yeast, and is made from a batter rather than a dough. Flatbread has no yeast and is often cooked in a pan rather than baked. Some breads are made from potato or rice paste or various other ingredients. Some are sweet, some are savory. Some are fluffy, some are crisp. For an item to be considered a bread, it has to grab onto one of the many tentacles that make up the vague and loosely-defined category of “bread,” but not all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/50 "2017-12-27T19:55:22Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Unacceptable sir! I call you out… > > One of your Queen’s guards against one of our Unknown Tomb guards in a fight to the death. For bacon! Properly done corned beef is _good_. A couple of bay leaves, two tablespoons of molasses, orange zest, half a handful of cloves, star anise if you’re feeling ambitious - simmer slowly for hours for salty sweety fragrant goodness. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/51 "2017-12-27T20:47:48Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig. > > This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat. Eh, I wouldn’t try to sell it as ham. In fact, I wouldn’t try to sell it at all. I’d still call it “ham”, because it’s looks and tastes more like ham than like bacon. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/52 "2017-12-27T20:55:49Z")
In the US, you can’t call that stuff “bacon”, either, not without specifying what it actually is. > **[Bacon and Food Safety | Food Safety and Inspection Service](https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/meat-fish/bacon-and-food-safety)** > [@USDA](#): > > The term “bacon” is used to describe the cured belly of a swine (hog) carcass. If meat from other portions of the carcass is used, the product name must identify the portions where the bacon comes from, e.g., “Pork Shoulder Bacon.” Bacon is generally produced from young animals (6 to 7 months old) that weigh between 175 to 240 pounds. > > Pork bacon without any other descriptors is raw (uncooked) and must be cooked before eating. Most bacon sold in the United States is “streaky” bacon, long narrow slices cut crosswise from the hog belly that contain veins of pink meat within white fat. Unless otherwise noted, the information in this publication refers to “streaky” bacon. > > In addition to “streaky” bacon, other U.S. favorites are American-style Canadian bacon (round slices of pink meat from the loin), turkey bacon made from light and dark turkey meat, and beef bacon prepared from various beef cuts. See the “Glossary of Bacon Terms” (found at the end of this publication) for definitions. So “bacon” by itself means what you call “streaky bacon”, and “\_\_\_\_\_ bacon” can be any cured food, including turkey. We have turkey ham, too, although like turkey bacon, it needs to be labeled: > **[Home | Food Safety and Inspection Service](https://www.fsis.usda.gov/)** > > The Food Safety and Inspection Service is responsible for ensuring that meat, poultry, Siluriformes, and eggs are safe and are properly labeled and packaged. Learn more about our inspection services and process. > [@USDA](#): > > Hams may be fresh, cured, or cured-and-smoked. Ham is the cured leg of > pork. Fresh ham is an uncured leg of pork. Fresh ham will bear the term > “fresh” as part of the product name and is an indication that the product is not > cured. “Turkey” ham is a ready-to-eat product made from cured thigh meat > of turkey. The term “turkey ham” is always followed by the statement “cured > turkey thigh meat.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/53 "2017-12-27T21:02:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > “I can’t define it, but I know what it is when I see it.” > > Or something to that effect? That’s the punchline I was going for, but **silenus’** works too! ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/54 "2017-12-28T02:52:42Z")
Just to muddy the waters further: [pig-free bacon](https://www.joyofkosher.com/2016/12/how-to-cook-kosher-beef-bacon/). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/55 "2017-12-28T02:55:23Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Just to muddy the waters further: [pig-free bacon](https://www.joyofkosher.com/2016/12/how-to-cook-kosher-beef-bacon/). From Harry Turtledove-_[The R Strain](http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/The_R-Strain)_ > [@](#): > > The story is set in the near future. A biotech company Genetic Enterprises reveals its latest product: a genetically engineered pig that was a ruminant, hence the name “R-Strain”. This meant that the R-strain would absorb more nutrients from its feed since “cud crewing” allowed better digestion. As a consequence, the pigs would gain weight faster and could be brought to market sooner, earning the farmers a bigger return. > > That immediately engenders a religious and philosophical question: Since the R-strain chews its cud, is it kosher? The company turns to Rabbi Aaron Kaplan to answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/56 "2017-12-28T04:27:49Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > In the US, you can’t call that stuff “bacon”, either, not without specifying what it actually is. > > [https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/meat-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct\_index](https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/meat-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index) Yes, but the term “bacon” is used in countries beyond the US FDA’s jurisdiction, and legal definitions are often distinct from their common usage. “Cheddar” and “Champagne” have specific legal definitions in the UK/EU that don’t apply and aren’t followed here in the US (or in Canada, iirc). ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/57 "2017-12-28T13:49:19Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Think of it as the pig version of corned beef. Corned beef is two different things on each side of the atlantic: US Corned Beef is UK Salt Beef UK Corned Beef is US Bully beef (not sure if that’s the term, but its this in tin version: [Corned beef in tin/can](http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/princes-corned-beef-340g/p/19028?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=7Stars+-+Generic+-+Shopping+ROPO+Catch+All+-+Food+Cupboard&utm_term=&utm_content=Food+Cupboard&source=ppc&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyZLSBRDpARIsAH66VQLANs4i_nv1X9MJB0WbR7s7i5pR3Yc85WlIKenOoXP55n0N4-2cp-caAmvoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/58 "2017-12-28T13:51:38Z")
To throw something different in the mix, I believe the term “danish bacon” was used a lot to describe the british back bacon when I was growing up. Not sure if the Danish actually have Bacon like that, most european bacon tends to be streaky when I’ve seen it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/59 "2017-12-28T15:12:07Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Corned beef is two different things on each side of the atlantic: > > US Corned Beef is UK Salt Beef > > UK Corned Beef is US Bully beef (not sure if that’s the term, but its this in tin version: [Corned beef in tin/can](http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/princes-corned-beef-340g/p/19028?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=7Stars+-+Generic+-+Shopping+ROPO+Catch+All+-+Food+Cupboard&utm_term=&utm_content=Food+Cupboard&source=ppc&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyZLSBRDpARIsAH66VQLANs4i_nv1X9MJB0WbR7s7i5pR3Yc85WlIKenOoXP55n0N4-2cp-caAmvoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) I’ve never heard of bully beef, but we also have corned beef in a can here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356/60 "2017-12-28T15:53:43Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Yes, but the term “bacon” is used in countries beyond the US FDA’s jurisdiction, and legal definitions are often distinct from their common usage. > > “Cheddar” and “Champagne” have specific legal definitions in the UK/EU that don’t apply and aren’t followed here in the US (or in Canada, iirc). Sure. I am only commenting on the word “bacon” in the US. In the US, unless explicitly specified otherwise, it means cured pork belly. Or “streaky bacon” ( a term I never heard before this thread) in the UK. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-universal-definition-of-bacon/805356.md?page=4)