# Is there a useful book of Jesus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238 "2011-11-17T16:20:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/1 "2011-11-17T16:20:36Z")
I know there aren’t any live interviews of the guy, or even first hand accounts written down along the lines of, “Me & Jesus went to the olive garden yesterday and he had this to say about leprosy…” As I understand it, we’re limited to transcriptions of oral accounts handed down through a number of people. So nothing really from _himself_. I get that. But is there a compliation of attributed quotes, put in context and then annotated to clarify the meaning/intention of what was said? Apart from the gospels, I mean. Ideally this would be a scholarly work that takes his words from as close to the source as possible, translates them directly into the reader’s language, and then is followed up with a text explaining the setting and why the quote was deemed important enough to recount. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/2 "2011-11-17T16:32:42Z")
Short answer? No. The Gospels themselves are widely ASSUMED to be based on a collection of Jesus’ sayings (scholars refer to this collection as “Q”), but there’s nowhere that you can read an “uncontaminated” set of Jesus’ sayings. At most, you can look to something like the Jesus Seminar’s work, which lets various scholars vote on which of Jesus’ sayings in the Gospels are legit and which were made up later. The Gospels are pretty much all you’ve got. Even skeptics don’t have any other sources for Jesus’ sayings, and are reduced to picking and choosing which parts of the Gospels they think are true. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/3 "2011-11-17T16:34:57Z")
Well, there are additional gospels, like the Thomas, that didn’t pass the hurdles to be considered canonical. They might contain additional sayings or different versions than the canonical ones. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/4 "2011-11-17T17:03:40Z")
Yeah, we don’t have any sources that are older or more original or more authoritative than the gospels themselves. And they’re written in Greek, while Jesus is presumed to have spoken Aramaic, so what we have are at best a translation of his exact words. Anyone’s free to write a book in which they try to explain the exact words, the context, the intention, and the meaning of what Jesus actually said, and lots of people have done so—many of them violently disagreeing with each other—but such a work is going to have to be based on a combination of speculation, historical and linguistic scholarship, and a careful reading of the Bible itself. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/5 "2011-11-17T17:04:27Z")
The only record we have of Jesus is what’s in the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Fortune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Commander\_Fortune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Fortune)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/6 "2011-11-17T17:22:21Z")
_The Gospel of Thomas_, is definitely a collection of sayings and adages. [http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html](http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html) ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/7 "2011-11-17T17:44:15Z")
One person who tried to provide a look at the teachings of Jesus specifically, without a lot of the extraneous material in the New Testament, was [Thomas Jefferson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible). He literally cut and pasted verses out of the Bible to put together a narrative that focused on Jesus. It looks like the Jefferson Bible went on display at the Smithsonian National Museum of American History last week and there is an [Online Exhibit](http://americanhistory.si.edu/jeffersonbible/). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/8 "2011-11-17T18:09:26Z")
I’m sure someone has put together something like this. There are “apocryphal” Jesus quotes. Besides the aforementioned Gospel of Thomas there are spurious works, some of which exist, such as the purported letter from Jesus to the king of Armenia. (Most of the quotes in these spurious sources, however, are requotes from the canonical gospels, or combinations or reformulations of them). There are also some other attributed quotes – I believe on of the commentaries in one of the Tamuds includes a ruling from Jesus that prostitue’s donations to the Temple could be used for the building of privies, citing as support the text “from filth it came, to filth it may return” (This is one of those sayings they never taught us in parochial school). There may also be some sayings of Jesus in the Pauline letters or the other NT letters that aren’t in the gospels – I don’t recall. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/9 "2011-11-17T19:10:33Z")
Thomas Jefferson and the Jesus Seminar were each, in their own ways, attempting to do the same thing: sift through the Gospels and pick out the stuff they THINK is true and weed out the stuff the believe was added later (by Paul, by other disciples, or by other subsequent redcators). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/10 "2011-11-17T20:24:09Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Thomas Jefferson and the Jesus Seminar were each, in their own ways, attempting to do the same thing: sift through the Gospels and pick out the stuff they THINK is true and weed out the stuff the believe was added later (by Paul, by other disciples, or by other subsequent redcators). It’s unlikely that Paul himself had a hand in any of the Gospels. He doesn’t seem familiar with them in his other writings (nor would he, since they were written down later). And the Gospels don’t really show evidence of influence from Paul either, although the author of Luke-Acts was apparently familiar with him, and parts of Acts seem to be written by on of Paul’s traveling companions. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/11 "2011-11-17T20:41:17Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s unlikely that Paul himself had a hand in any of the Gospels. He doesn’t seem familiar with them in his other writings (nor would he, since they were written down later). And the Gospels don’t really show evidence of influence from Paul either, although the author of Luke-Acts was apparently familiar with him, and parts of Acts seem to be written by on of Paul’s traveling companions. I didn’t say it was likely- but Thomas Jeferson himself said often that Jesus was an admirable moral teacher, and indicated that whatever he DIDN’T like in the Gospels was undoubtedly the work of that rascal Paul. ---
**Author:** ![cdsilv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cdsilv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdsilv)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/12 "2011-11-17T21:02:20Z")
Lamb by Christopher Moore (makes as much sense as any of the rest of the books - check it out). ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/13 "2011-11-17T21:13:47Z")
Let me put on my golden glasses and check out this book I found in a cave and I’ll get back to ya . . . ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/14 "2011-11-17T21:44:24Z")
One major non-biblical source on Jesus would be [Josephus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus), and he is not without controversy. Since he lived immediately after the time of Christ, he was not writing a first hand account, either. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/15 "2011-11-17T22:50:44Z")
The book of Revelation also has quotes of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/16 "2011-11-17T22:56:43Z")
I agree with other posters - read the Gnostic gospels - but anyone’s guess is almost as good as another at this point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![isaiahrobinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@isaiahrobinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/isaiahrobinson)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/17 "2011-11-18T00:09:36Z")
I think the OP is actually looking for something more like a critical analysis of the Bible, plus the non-canonical gospels and any other sources that claim to describe or quote Jesus. He wants something that collates Jesus’s supposed quotes, in the original language of the source, then translates them and explains them to the reader. Now granted, I’m not sure there _is_ any other source that claims to quote Jesus’s words other than the Bible. But nevertheless I think that’s what he’s looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/18 "2011-11-18T00:20:48Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The only record we have of Jesus is what’s in the Bible. That’s certainly not true. There are dozens of other accounts of Jesus’ life. Many of them are as old as the accounts in the New Testament. You’d have a hard time coming up with a standard which says the Gospel of Luke is a historical account and the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is a work of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/19 "2011-11-18T01:17:29Z")
I’ll just state explicitly what other poster have hinted at: The only source outside of the New Testament that any mainstream scholars seriously think might contain at least some original (in translation) quotes from Jesus is the “Gospel According to Thomas”, sometimes call the “Coptic Gospel of Thomas” to distinguish it from the “Infancy Gospel of Thomas”, which is a totally separate writing. Opinions differ, but most scholars think that the “Gospel of Thomas” is as old or nearly as old as the biblical Gospels, and that parts of it\* may be quotes from the same Jesus as the biblical Gospels draw from. > [@yabob](#): > > One major non-biblical source on Jesus would be [Josephus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus), and he is not without controversy. Since he lived immediately after the time of Christ, he was not writing a first hand account, either. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238/20 "2011-11-18T06:00:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s certainly not true. There are dozens of other accounts of Jesus’ life. Many of them are as old as the accounts in the New Testament. I’m open to being corrected, but I don’t think so. With one or two exceptions, the NT apocrypha are considerably later than the canonical NT texts. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’d have a hard time coming up with a standard which says the Gospel of Luke is a historical account and the Infancy Gospel of Thomas is a work of fiction. See, there you go. The Infancy Gospel of Thomas dates to the second/third centuries. Luke is much earlier - certainly first century, and possibly as early as 60/65. Furthermore Infancy Thomas seems to draw on Luke, which suggests that it must be the later text. On the face of it, its contents are largely fanciful. Its author seems to have been unfamilar with Jewish life and culture. No scholar would bracket it with Luke in terms of reliability or historicity. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-useful-book-of-jesus/603238.md?page=2)