# Is there a way that I can relieve myself of child support **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711 "2004-12-14T02:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/101 "2004-12-14T19:57:54Z")
The OP could try [this](http://www.foreignlegionlife.com/) website. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/102 "2004-12-14T20:11:57Z")
I’d like to clarify that I don’t think all anecdotes are useless, but they must be recognized as such (i.e. realize that the facts might be so different that the anecdote has very little practical application to your situation). I also want to stress that child support laws are not uniform from state to state. That being said, the formula relied upon by the Pennsylvania court systems might be quite fair. Futhermore, a system riddled with flaws (like Georgia’s) might still arrive at an equitable result more often than not (read: please don’t berate me because you or your child are the victim of a deadbeat dad and the child support system in your state arrived at what could fairly be considered a just result). I recognize the urge to flay OP (it seems the process has already begun in the pit), but as the advisors whom OP has sought, we stand in the position to offer him some meaningful advice that might enable him to deal with this situation as a responiblwe adult. I am sure he is plenty scared and regretful. Does trying him for the wrongs of all deadbeat dads past solve anything? Look kid, be a man and face your problems. Things might not be as bad as they seem. DO this honestly and armed with information. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/103 "2004-12-14T20:25:27Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I think this argument neglects the legitimacy of the pro-life position as a moral belief. While I am ardently pro-choice, I think that to set up a system requiring a woman to either be pro-choice or else bear the burden of exclusively raising _and_ supporting children is immoral, just as forcing all women to carry all unwanted pregnancies to term would be immoral. Not neglecting the legitimacy of a moral belief, but rather the presumption that moral beliefs can be used at all in constructing premises for argument. Any given set of moral values, being propositions of value judgement, may at any time be mutually inconsistent. This is also true of metaphysical propositions. Logically structured debate around such values is consequently not possible with any degree of accuracy. Conversely, physical phenomena, and any premises based on empirical or analytical propositions, can not exist self-inconsistently, and as such can be used as the basis of logically structured debate without being subject to varying interpretations of authoritarian ethics or ethical relativism. What this boils down to is that, in considering the implications of a particular action or policy on a contingent of the population which holds such action or policy in high or low esteem depending on a moral position, we must discuss the merits of such an action or policy not on its moral value, but rather on the analytically and empirically observed consequences on the population judging the action or policy according to moral criteria. With this in mind, I hold to my previously stated position on the basis that, despite objections from the morally opposed, such a policy would act to the greater good. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/104 "2004-12-14T21:01:54Z")
> [@lavenderlemon](#): > > My point was that condoms have fewer physical risks and are easier to use than any birth control method women currently have. > > If you’re a man who does not want to support a child then make darned sure your partner is agreement with you before you have sex. Sorry, but her agreement is irrelevant. The female partner you cite could later change her mind–after vociferously stating that she did not want a child–and the man is obligated to follow her lead. BTW, you cite condoms as having comparitively fewer physical risks. Don’t forget to factor into your equation what happens when those condoms fail–and I’m talking from birth forward. A 13 percent failure rate is, in the aggregate, appallingly bad. IOW, think of how many birth defects, childhood disorders, adult disease process, and myriad social ills can be linked to that 13 percent failure rate. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/105 "2004-12-14T21:02:42Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > Not neglecting the legitimacy of a moral belief, but rather the presumption that moral beliefs can be used at all in constructing premises for argument. Any given set of moral values, being propositions of value judgement, may at any time be mutually inconsistent. This is also true of metaphysical propositions. Logically structured debate around such values is consequently not possible with any degree of accuracy. Conversely, physical phenomena, and any premises based on empirical or analytical propositions, can not exist self-inconsistently, and as such can be used as the basis of logically structured debate without being subject to varying interpretations of authoritarian ethics or ethical relativism. > > What this boils down to is that, in considering the implications of a particular action or policy on a contingent of the population which holds such action or policy in high or low esteem depending on a moral position, we must discuss the merits of such an action or policy not on its moral value, but rather on the analytically and empirically observed consequences on the population judging the action or policy according to moral criteria. > > With this in mind, I hold to my previously stated position on the basis that, despite objections from the morally opposed, such a policy would act to the greater good. Interesting persepctive . Why don’t you try it on your SO after she discovers she’s carrying your child? I triple dog dare ya’. Arguments about the relative nature of fetal rights don’t get much traction when she begins to feel it kicking, and men being waffling, non-stand up weenies about taking care of potential parental obligations is something many women find hard to forgive or forget. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/106 "2004-12-14T21:15:59Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > Sorry, but her agreement is irrelevant. The female partner you cite could later change her mind–after vociferously stating that she did not want a child–and the man is obligated to follow her lead. Yes she could. That’s the risk he takes when copulates with her. If he’s that concerned about pregnancy he ought to make sure she’s also birth control. > [@](#): > > BTW, you cite condoms as having comparitively fewer physical risks. Don’t forget to factor into your equation what happens when those condoms fail–and I’m talking from birth forward. A 13 percent failure rate is, in the aggregate, appallingly bad. IOW, think of how many birth defects, childhood disorders, adult disease process, and myriad social ills can be linked to that 13 percent failure rate. A man still doesn’t face any PHYSICAL bodily risks from using a condom. I’ll leave to others to point out the exact details but the pill and the IUD all have very real side effects for many women. Unless you have a latex allergy the same is not true for a man and a condom. If you’re that disgusted that a woman has the right to decide whether or not to terminate the pregnancy or keep it well then go invest some money in better female birth control. In other words a woman has to be responsible for birth control AND pregnancy AND raising the child by herself without financial help. I don’t think that’s fair at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/107 "2004-12-14T21:33:39Z")
> [@hauss](#): > > what are the fees for the support let’s say if I make 800 a month, 600 a month, and 350 a month. Basically, what is the minimum amount. And can i tell the judge that i cannot afford the amount that she gives me. I know that there are scenarios in which the father is excused example… he is insane, unstable, half retarted. What is the most plausible form of producing the lowest payment owed for support? Hmm. How to put this in a non-Pit way…here goes: Sir, I think you’re in luck. Based on what you’ve said in this thread, it’s entirely possible you qualify for the third example you gave of excuses for not paying child support. Helpful tip: It’s spelled r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d. H-a-u-s-s is also acceptable, in this context. Best of luck on dodging your responsibilities to another human being, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/108 "2004-12-14T21:37:48Z")
> [@Uvula Donor](#): > > I wish this thread was in the Pit. > [bites tongue and walks away] You’re a better person than I. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/109 "2004-12-14T21:42:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > … and men being waffling, non-stand up weenies about taking care of potential parental obligations is something many women find hard to forgive or forget. One could say the same thing about women who act irrationally when making the life-altering decision to have a child in spite of poor financial, emotional, paternal or other relevant circumstances, making such a decision not only for themselves, but for the father and the potential child as well. Of course, comments like that, being both sexist and insulting, have no place on a forum like this, except possibly in The Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/110 "2004-12-14T21:44:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > (deep breath) > > 1. You don’t want to have a baby, you’ve told her this time and time again, **you take every precaution.** She wantonly skips her birth control, and your condom tears and she gets pregnant. She keeps it, and you refuse to support it - and they throw your ass in jail. > > Now, I really have trouble with the idea that 3 is OK but 4 is not. Why can’t men decide they don’t want the baby? Women are running out of excuses. We don’t need men to support us in civilized countries, we no longer have the stigma of unwed motherhood. bolding mine The bolded part is where this argument falls completely apart. If the woman is pregnant, then the man did not take every precaution. There is a precaution that is 100%, infallably effective at preventing unwanted pregnancy. Don’t have sexual intercourse. No matter what form of birth control is used, there is some risk of unwanted pregnancy. Every time you engage in sex, you implicitly accept responsibility for the child that might be produced as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Magickly\_Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magickly\_Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magickly_Delicious)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/111 "2004-12-14T22:20:04Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > What this boils down to is that, … we must discuss the merits of such an action or policy not on its moral value… Your arguments fail to take into consideration that “the population” consists of _humans_, not automatons. And they have things like beliefs, ideals, and so on, which don’t fit all that well into your arguments. Plus, trying to deduce what would be to the “greater good” means making judgement calls based on a framework that looks a lot like, oh I don’t know, a system of moral values. This topic has been done over and over in GD, I think. Perhaps you should do a search there, or start up your own thread there. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/112 "2004-12-14T22:42:29Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > we must discuss the merits of such an action or policy not on its moral value, but rather on the analytically and empirically observed consequences on the population judging the action or policy according to moral criteria. That may work on planet Vulcan, but we humans have these pesky things called “emotions” which greatly complicate our ability to create the most logically consistent society. We’re working on a spray to remove excess emotions, but it won’t be ready for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/113 "2004-12-14T22:48:22Z")
I feel for the situation **you** are in, I really do. I too, have recently been involved in an unplanned pregnancy (Not quite the same but the shock may be similar). However, I do not agree with **your** idea for a solution. Any method of birth control is designed to reduce the chances of an unplanned pregnancy. There are warnings on every package that I have bothered to look at, albeit in fine print. **You** did know this, right? Its public knowledge. It was on every package **you** threw out and never read while trying to dip **your** willy. “It can’t happen to us” **you** said, thinking **you** could play the numbers game. Let me tell **you** something: If **you** want to play the numbers, make sure **you** can pay the price _if_ your number comes up. **You** decided to have sex. **You** decided that **you** did not want a child so **you** used protection. **You** , knowing that birth control methods are not perfect, decided that the risk was worth it. **You** have helped to create a living mass that will eventually become a child. Without **You** , this never would have happened. Now, **you** should take some responsibilities for **your** decisions and actions. None of the above decisions even deal with **your** girlfriend, who in turn made these same decisions for herself. If either of **you** had said no to any of the above, this would not have happened. Welcome to the real world kid. But then, this isn’t about some child growing up without a father or a single mother working to fill the void left by a father who got his jollies and took off now is it. It has always been about **you**. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/114 "2004-12-15T02:46:06Z")
> [@Mr. Excellent](#): > > You’re a better person than I. I read your last post, and I strongly suggest that you _get_ better. Fast. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/115 "2004-12-15T04:11:16Z")
If **hauss** were to leave the country and move to Europe, would he be extradited to pay child support, or would they give up trying to track him down? ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/116 "2004-12-15T09:21:35Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > You sound young. I presume that your girlfriend is, too? If abortion is out of the question, your best bet at this point is probably to argue from the angle that she is too young, naive and/or irresponsible at this point in her life to consider raising a child. Throw facts at her about the costs of raising a kid, and the effect that it will have on her social life, ability to do anything she wants, etc. With any luck, she’ll come around and reconsider giving the child up for adoption. If not, you’re stuck - plan on paying for it. Uh…abortion at 24 weeks (which is the point of legal viability)? What? Because he doesn’t want to support it? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/117 "2004-12-15T09:28:52Z")
> [@Fritz](#): > > I gotta feeling this is going to wind up in the Pit anyway. I really hope so. There are some things that need to be said right now, and cannot be as long as this remains in IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/118 "2004-12-15T09:38:38Z")
[Pit thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=291795) ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/119 "2004-12-15T15:10:19Z")
Well, I think we managed to scare off **hauss**. He hasn’t posted since his original post… I hope he’s not cowering behind the sofa again. I hate it when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711/120 "2004-12-15T15:34:32Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > Well, I think we managed to scare off **hauss**. He hasn’t posted since his original post… > > I hope he’s not cowering behind the sofa again. I hate it when that happens. No doubt absconding to Far Rockaway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-that-i-can-relieve-myself-of-child-support/279711.md?page=7)