# Is there a way to fix men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622 "2009-07-29T01:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/21 "2009-07-29T03:16:13Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Is there a way to fix men? Several of them. There’s the surgical method, but that gets more expensive, and less effective, as they age. Or you could put a rubber band between their scrotum and everything else when they’re young. I understand the offensive items turn black and fall off. ETA: That doesn’t seem to be the question, is it? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/22 "2009-07-29T03:18:34Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Cite? The info I’m getting from the [US Bureau of Justice](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm) says, of children under 5 murdered by a parent, 31 percent are killed by their father and 29 percent by their mother (and 80 percent of those killed by a non-family member are killed by a male). Though I do think there’s often a ‘kick the dog’ trend of domestic abuse. I think you mean “of children murdered” - not “of children murdered by a parent”. The cite says: > [@](#): > > Note: Parents includes stepparents. > Of all children under age 5 murdered from 1976-2005 – > > 31% were killed by fathers > 29% were killed by mothers > 23% were killed by male acquaintances > 7% were killed by other relatives > 3% were killed by strangers > Of those children killed by someone other than their parent, 81% were killed by males. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/23 "2009-07-29T03:20:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Could it be a veiled reference to abortion? Fuck no! A statistic that I won’t look back up to cite, since **Cat Fight’s** bears sound credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/24 "2009-07-29T03:23:29Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Men commit more violent crimes than women by an enormous margin (see [here](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm) or [here](http://social.jrank.org/pages/1253/Violent-Crime-Gender-Differences-in-Violent-Crime-Offenders.html)). Meaningless, since men are more likely to be arrested, investigated and/or convicted for a crime., And it’s a common practice when a woman commits a crime to find a male relative/SO who will make a false confession and take the fall. Then there are examples like domestic violence; a while back the feminists pushed for laws that would require the cops to arrest the perpetrator regardless of whether or not the victim wanted them to; the theory was that the cops were covering for male violence. Instead, the result was a lot of women being arrested for domestic violence, because the cops had been refusing to arrest women all over the country for it. My favorite attempt to explain this away was the claim that men were hitting and stabbing and shooting themselves to make women look bad. > [@marshmallow](#): > > Then we can also mention rape and molestation, forced incest, assault, domestic abuse, and the fact men are the reason prostitution, sex trafficking (both children and adults), pornography, strip clubs, etc. exist. Desperate people will do what they must to survive, but at root men are the buyers. If men weren’t so sick in the head there would be no market, e.g. impoverished men whore their bodies for money and drugs – but to other men, not women. Ditto gay porn. How interesting that you lump in rape and child molestation with porn and strip clubs. You aren’t arguing that men are evil here; you are arguing that Sex Is Bad. And you leave out the torture and mutilation of children, which is an activity dominated by women. > [@marshmallow](#): > > I have no cite for the following accusation against my own gender but I also believe men, in general, are more jingoistic, religious, racist, and generally tribalistic. Women can be and are these things, but men take it to a whole new level of batshit insane craziness. Has a gang of women controlling the inner city of some third world slum ever traveled around raping, tearing apart people limb by limb, and stabbing babies in the head just because they weren’t part of the right clan? Well, maybe they wanted to but the men tore their clits out and sewed their vaginas shut to disabuse them of the notion. Actually, women as much or more perform genital mutilation on their younger relatives. As for why gangs of women don’t act like gangs of men, that’s because women don’t form gangs _ **at all** _. They lack the male instinct to organize \*\*. That doesn’t stop women from being exceedingly brutal and pro violence however. And of those men you sneer at, how many are doing those awful things because their mother or wife told them to ? \*\* They CAN organize of course, but it’s learned not instinctive. You end up with female clubs and pressure groups and such; not impromptu groups like gangs. > [@marshmallow](#): > > Or perhaps China and India are wrong and we should be aborting male babies instead and watching as our quality of life improves? Historically, male infanticide was the norm, and female infanticide was rare. The past was not exactly known for a high quality of life. > [@marshmallow](#): > > I think the chemical castration bit may be the best bet for a quick fix, although I would certainly miss having a libido. I think you forget about it after a couple of days though. Yes, that’s right. Declare war on men, and chemically mutilate them. That couldn’t POSSIBLY provoke a backlash. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/25 "2009-07-29T03:38:54Z")
A woman who tries to be ladylike, but gets it wrong, may have problems being assertive. A man who makes mistakes trying to be a real man is apt to fail more spectacularly–such men typically confuse strength with unjust aggression and may do anything from cutting off other drivers in traffic, all the way up to brawling, raping, and killing. I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know it isn’t getting rid of manliness, because the world needs manly virtues like strength and courage every bit as much as it needs feminine ones like tenderness and compassion. > [@dropzone](#): > > Several of them. There’s the surgical method, but that gets more expensive, and less effective, as they age. Or you could put a rubber band between their scrotum and everything else when they’re young. I understand the offensive items turn black and fall off. > > ETA: That doesn’t seem to be the question, is it? ☹ I think my wife took mine. Honey? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/26 "2009-07-29T03:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, maybe they wanted to but the men tore their clits out and sewed their vaginas shut to disabuse them of the notion. If women were actually tough, this wouldn’t obstruct them from achieving their aims. ---
**Author:** ![lurking\_guest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2acd7d/32.png) [@lurking\_guest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurking_guest)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/27 "2009-07-29T04:26:45Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by marshmallow Men commit more violent crimes than women by an enormous margin (see here or here). Meaningless, since men are more likely to be arrested, investigated and/or convicted for a crime., And it’s a common practice when a woman commits a crime to find a male relative/SO who will make a false confession and take the fall. Then there are examples like domestic violence; a while back the feminists pushed for laws that would require the cops to arrest the perpetrator regardless of whether or not the victim wanted them to; the theory was that the cops were covering for male violence. Instead, the result was a lot of women being arrested for domestic violence, because the cops had been refusing to arrest women all over the country for it. My favorite attempt to explain this away was the claim that men were hitting and stabbing and shooting themselves to make women look bad. Quote: Originally Posted by marshmallow Then we can also mention rape and molestation, forced incest, assault, domestic abuse, and the fact men are the reason prostitution, sex trafficking (both children and adults), pornography, strip clubs, etc. exist. Desperate people will do what they must to survive, but at root men are the buyers. If men weren’t so sick in the head there would be no market, e.g. impoverished men whore their bodies for money and drugs – but to other men, not women. Ditto gay porn. How interesting that you lump in rape and child molestation with porn and strip clubs. You aren’t arguing that men are evil here; you are arguing that Sex Is Bad. Quote from Der Th…whatever his name is… Is he a real Human Being? He hates women, governments, children, rules, democracy, hope, love, (his job) hehehe… Have lurked at every single post you’ve made. Though I agree with you about many things…Good Lord, Der, you’re an effin tool when it comes to females. Who has denied your advances over the years? ---
**Author:** ![Other\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Other\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Other_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/28 "2009-07-29T04:33:01Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Ahem. It is allowable to say that men are worse than women; it is not allowable to say that blacks are worse than whites. Got that? Carry on, citizen. You mean statistically speaking they are more **prone** to do Bad Things™. They aren’t _inherently_ worse. (“Prone” might not be the best word.) I don’t like fighting - I literally wouldn’t hurt a fly\*. I refuse. Clearly the men who aren’t doing Bad Things™ are being ignored. Do we get to suffer as well, in this “Male Correction Scenario”(MCS for short) of yours? This thread doesn’t belong in Great Debates. The OP only asks if there is a way to fix men, not if we actually _need_ to. Which sounds like IMHO. \*\* ~S.P.I.~ \*I talk to insects and flowers when I have the time. \*\*I may be misunderstanding the purpose behind Great Debates. If so, please enlighten me. (Unrelated: How do you use superscript in a post?) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/29 "2009-07-29T05:05:06Z")
> [@lurking\_guest](#): > > Quote from Der Th..whatever his name is.. > > Is he a real Human Being? > > …Good Lord, Der, you’re an effin tool when it comes to females. > > Who has denied your advances over the years? **Moderator’s Note:** Please leave the personal attacks out of Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/30 "2009-07-29T05:08:55Z")
> [@Other\_Dreams](#): > > (Unrelated: How do you use superscript in a post?) E = mc\*\*[**sup]2**[\*\*/sup] –\> E = mc[sup]2[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/31 "2009-07-29T05:24:15Z")
Also a more universal solution is to use the unicode superscript characters ⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹ e=mc[sup]2[/sup] \<- [sup] tag vs unicode -\> e=mc² Unicode survives cutting and pasting as superscript. In windows, you can look up characters with the included character map tool. Just open it up, click advanced, then pick group Unicode sub-range, pick arial ms Unicode from the drop down menu, pick super/sub script from the menu that appears. Of course I’m ♂ so this advice is tainted with pure evil. Also available in subscript! ₀ ₁ ₂ ₃ ₄ ₅ ₆ ₇ ₈ ₉ ---
**Author:** ![Other\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Other\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Other_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/32 "2009-07-29T05:30:58Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Of course I’m ♂ so this advice is tainted with pure evil. Thank you both supremely! ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/33 "2009-07-29T07:01:50Z")
> [@lurking\_guest](#): > > **Everyone** \*\*\*\*knows that women are equally complicit in prison populations, domestic violence, sex crimes, Wall Street crimes and global military actions. > [@](#): > > Greed, desire for pre-eminence and superiority and selfishness come equally from women. These are unrelated. Just becuase more men get caught committing crimes doesn’t necessarily mean more men have bad thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/34 "2009-07-29T07:36:03Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Let’s discuss men. > > Men commit more violent crimes than women by an enormous margin (see [here](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm) or [here](http://social.jrank.org/pages/1253/Violent-Crime-Gender-Differences-in-Violent-Crime-Offenders.html)). > > Depending on the region and time period studied, for every victim killed by a woman there are 6-11 killed by a man. Men also commit more robberies and property crimes. Then we can also mention rape and molestation, forced incest, assault, domestic abuse, and the fact men are the reason prostitution, sex trafficking (both children and adults), pornography, strip clubs, etc. exist. Desperate people will do what they must to survive, but at root men are the buyers. If men weren’t so sick in the head there would be no market, e.g. impoverished men whore their bodies for money and drugs – but to other men, not women. Ditto gay porn. > > Men are also aggressive drivers and kill/maim boatloads of people, despite the '20s stereotype about women. Particularly men aged 16-24. One of the top things you can do to decrease your chance of cement splattering death via a windshield exit is to let your wife or girlfriend drive (women get in more accidents than men per mile driven but they tend to be more of the fender bender variety, whereas men apparently prefer to reenact Carmageddon). > > I have no cite for the following accusation against my own gender but I also believe men, in general, are more jingoistic, religious, racist, and generally tribalistic. Women can be and are these things, but men take it to a whole new level of batshit insane craziness. Has a gang of women controlling the inner city of some third world slum ever traveled around raping, tearing apart people limb by limb, and stabbing babies in the head just because they weren’t part of the right clan? Well, maybe they wanted to but the men tore their clits out and sewed their vaginas shut to disabuse them of the notion. You say all this like it’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/35 "2009-07-29T07:44:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **coffeecat** : I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know it isn’t getting rid of manliness, because the world needs manly virtues like strength and courage every bit as much as it needs feminine ones like tenderness and compassion. I just keep hoping that some day women can have strength and courage too. Today’s women are so timid and shy. Otis Redding sang about tenderness. It never did catch on though. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/36 "2009-07-29T07:48:36Z")
**Zoe** Heh, male on female sexism would end the moment women stop putting up with it. I don’t’ see that today’s women are any more timid and shy than any other time period’s. I’m gonna have to do it: **CITE?** ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/37 "2009-07-29T08:56:54Z")
> [@lurking\_guest](#): > > Quote from Der Th..whatever his name is.. > > Is he a real Human Being? > > He hates women, governments, children, rules, democracy, hope, love, (his job) hehehe… > > Have lurked at every single post you’ve made. > > Though I agree with you about many things…Good Lord, Der, you’re an effin tool when it comes to females. > > Who has denied your advances over the years? Ah, because I don’t go along with the idea that women are superior beings and men are vile scum I must be a woman hater who has been turned down by women which has apparently twisted me into something that isn’t a “real human being”. That’s your argument? I hate hope and democracy? What next, are you going to accuse me of eating puppies? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/38 "2009-07-29T09:30:19Z")
I’m also ♂ and don’t need fixing as the OP so delightfully puts it. At first glance I thought he was advocating having us ♂ taken to the veterinary surgeon to have our tripes removed. The vet if she was a ♀ would doubtless refuse having much need of our manly bodies and Greek Godlike physique. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/39 "2009-07-29T11:09:50Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Desperate people will do what they must to survive, but at root men are the buyers. …So if there wasn’t a market, desperate people would no longer be able to do what they must to survive, and therefore would not survive? 😕 > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I hate hope and democracy? What next, are you going to accuse me of eating puppies? You should try them some time, they taste like infants. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622/40 "2009-07-29T11:19:12Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > …You should try them some time, they taste like infants. Also, the minimum size for infants tends to be about seven pounds - too much for one, and not enough for two. Puppies are marketed more with convenience sizing in mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-way-to-fix-men/504622.md?page=3)