# Is there a word for an atheist that doesn't believe but hopes God exists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789 "2018-04-20T15:54:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/1 "2018-04-20T15:54:59Z")
Are they a proper atheist? “faith is the substance of things hoped for?” \*bug = but ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/2 "2018-04-20T16:01:48Z")
Agnostic is probably a better term. If you aren’t familiar with the term, an agnostic is someone who isn’t convinced that God exists, but isn’t completely convinced that God doesn’t exist either. Or, as one of my friends put it, he said he was a member of one of the few religions that can’t possibly be right. Agnostics don’t necessarily hope that God exists, but some (many?) do. > [@Ashtura](#): > > \*bug = but Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/3 "2018-04-20T16:36:27Z")
I don’t think there is a term, but perhaps there should be. There are all kinds of non-believers. 1. Some are people who hated the religious background they came from, and are HAPPY now to dismiss the faith they were taught as B.S. 2. Some grew up in tepidly religious households, never took their faith all that seriously, have now abandoned the tiny scrap of faith they had remaining, and don’t especially miss it. 3. But others grew up enthusiastically religious, and found great comfort and joy in the faith they have lost or abandoned. All are atheists if they truly believe there is no God. But all have different attitudes. Group 1 would say, “God doesn’t exist, and F— him if he did.” Group 2 would say, “God was just a story I once believed in, like Santa and the Tooth Fairy. Didn’t do me any harm, fun tradition, but I’ve grown up and moved on.” Group 3 would say, “I don’t believe God is real or that Jesus was his Son. But I used to. It made me happy. And I miss that. I wish I still believed.” I don’t know of any words to describe each group. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/4 "2018-04-20T16:42:33Z")
Nostalgic lapsed theist. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/5 "2018-04-20T16:58:44Z")
They’re still a proper atheist. ‘Theist’, ‘atheist’, and ‘agnostic’ define belief, not desire. Atheism is NOT a hatred, dislike, or mistrust of religion. It is merely an absence of religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/6 "2018-04-20T17:06:30Z")
Actually a good many Christians fall in that category: they were raised as Catholics or Methodists or whatever and will tell you that if asked, but are not absolutely convinced God exists. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/7 "2018-04-20T17:07:05Z")
Fideist is not quite what you’re looking for, but fideists reject the idea that god’s existence can be reasoned out or proved, so I suppose there could be atheist or agnostic fideists out there who would fit the description in the OP - not believing in god, but hoping for god. ---
**Author:** ![pdhenry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pdhenry/32/5561_2.png) [@pdhenry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdhenry)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/8 "2018-04-20T17:08:35Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Agnostic is probably a better term. If you aren’t familiar with the term, an agnostic is someone who isn’t convinced that God exists, but isn’t completely convinced that God doesn’t exist either. Or, as one of my friends put it, he said he was a member of one of the few religions that can’t possibly be right. > > Agnostics don’t necessarily hope that God exists, but some (many?) do. I’d argue that that description attributes a certain indecision on the part of the agnostic. Rather than being undecided, an agnostic is one who is fairly certain that the existence or nonexistence of (a) God is _unknowable_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/9 "2018-04-20T17:14:40Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > They’re still a proper atheist. ‘Theist’, ‘atheist’, and ‘agnostic’ define belief, not desire. > > Atheism is NOT a hatred, dislike, or mistrust of religion. It is merely an absence of religious beliefs. There are different levels of atheism, and Strong atheism certainly contains a hatred of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/10 "2018-04-20T17:17:00Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I don’t think there is a term, but perhaps there should be. > > There are all kinds of non-believers. > > 1. But others grew up enthusiastically religious, and found great comfort and joy in the faith they have lost or abandoned. > Group 3 would say, “I don’t believe God is real or that Jesus was his Son. But I used to. It made me happy. And I miss that. I wish I still believed.” > > I don’t know of any words to describe each group. That’d be me. I’m kind of pissed about it. It definitely was easier for me. ---
**Author:** ![gren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@gren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gren)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/11 "2018-04-20T17:40:02Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Is there a word for an atheist that doesn’t believe but hopes god exists? An _atheist_ is someone who does not believe in god or gods… that’s it, it’s the _“default position”_ that there is no evidence for god or gods therefore there is no belief in them. Beyond _atheism_ you fall into a sea of varying philosophies (humanism, moral relativism etc) that is **way** beyond the scope of your question. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Agnostic is probably a better term. If you aren’t familiar with the term, an agnostic is someone who isn’t convinced that God exists, but isn’t completely convinced that God doesn’t exist either. Or, as one of my friends put it, he said he was a member of one of the few religions that can’t possibly be right. > > Agnostics don’t necessarily hope that God exists, but some (many?) do. Here’s where it can get confusing… someone with “faith” from their iron-age holy book makes the claim that they know all, because whatever they don’t know, _ **”god did it”.** _ This makes them gnostic… making the claim that they **know** because of the “god-of-the-gaps” fallacy they cling to. Agnosticism is the opposite, making the claim that there is no proof of god (while the gnostics scream _ **”but mah Holy Book !!!”** _) thus not believing in 1600 year plus religions while also not necessarily making a claim against it. Again it can get really complicated as some folk slap the agnostic label on atheists and vice-versa and it becomes a **“gish gallop”** of semantic gymnastics and labels with extra strong adhesive. If you’re actually in this position you really shouldn’t stress on labels… instead take that energy and learn about other religions and the history of all religions… it’s \*\*\*\*fascinating stuff !! I spent some time in Japan and spent several weeks backpacking around with two Shinto priests who spoke excellent English… we visited, literally, hundreds of shrines (they have them for _ **everything,** _ fox, rocks, cats, penises, fish etc etc) and their idea of **animism** is radically different from the Abrahamic religions… similarly the Zen Buddhists are more focused on the harmony, beauty and wonder of nature… it’s worth looking in to. If asked, I either give people the simple _“I’m an atheist”_ line… if their discussion is worth the time, I let them know _“it’s complicated”_ as my **spiritual** beliefs are a mix of the _kami_ worship of Shintoism, the universal connections of Zen Buddhism (grab some **Alan Watts** lectures), the bluntness of the **Monty Python** parrot sketch and the _“Always look on the bright side of life”_ song from _ **“The Life of Brian”** _ and a big dallop of the absurdity and silliness of it all best summarized by **Douglas Adams** in this line: \*\*There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. _There is another theory which states that this has already happened._\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/12 "2018-04-21T19:11:07Z")
Unitarian? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/13 "2018-04-21T19:31:17Z")
Not quite the same as OP posited, but it’s verging on [Pascal’s Wager](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/14 "2018-04-21T20:19:48Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Actually a good many Christians fall in that category: they were raised as Catholics or Methodists or whatever and will tell you that if asked, but are not absolutely convinced God exists. It’s fair, I think, for someone that identifies as Christian to believe, but not be convinced. While what you mentioned does sort of straddle the line between religious and agnostic, faith is about believing in something that you don’t really have any proof of. Also, I’m sure there’s also plenty of people that have no belief at all, but still go through the motions because they have no interest in rocking the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/15 "2018-04-21T21:01:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There are different levels of atheism, and Strong atheism certainly contains a hatred of religion. No, there’s only the lack of a belief in gods. That is all that atheism is. You can’t have different levels of atheist, just like you can’t have different levels of unique. What you describe above is an anti-theist who also happens to be an atheist ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/16 "2018-04-21T21:21:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There are different levels of atheism, and Strong atheism certainly contains a hatred of religion. Nonsense. That’s like saying that someone who believes ghosts don’t exist hates ghosts (or maybe hates ghosthunters). Strong atheists may believe that believers are mistaken, and they may believe that religion has negative aspects, but they there’s no direct connection between strong atheism and hatred of religion. Agnostics and even some believers may hate organized religions. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/17 "2018-04-21T21:33:48Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Atheism is NOT a hatred, dislike, or mistrust of religion. It is merely an absence of religious beliefs. Atheism is the _belief_ that God does not exist. Carl Sagan himself said that atheism is just as faith-based as theism. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/18 "2018-04-21T21:41:03Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Actually a good many Christians fall in that category: they were raised as Catholics or Methodists or whatever and will tell you that if asked, but are not absolutely convinced God exists. But if they believe that God exists they are still theists. Some Christians seem to think that faith - belief without absolute conviction - is important. If they lack belief in any god then they are atheists, but I suspect that this is not common among this set of people. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/19 "2018-04-21T21:57:29Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > No, there’s only the lack of a belief in gods. That is all that atheism is. > You can’t have different levels of atheist, just like you can’t have different levels of unique. > **[Negative and positive atheism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism)** > > Negative atheism, also called weak atheism and soft atheism, is any type of atheism where a person does not believe in the existence of any deities but does not necessarily explicitly assert that there are none. Positive atheism, also called strong atheism and hard atheism, is the form of atheism that additionally asserts that no deities exist. > The terms "negative atheism" and "positive atheism" were used by Antony Flew in 1976 and have appeared in George H. Smith's and Michael Martin's writing... > **[What's the Difference Between Strong and Weak Atheism?](https://www.learnreligions.com/strong-atheism-vs-weak-atheism-248406)** > > From "lacking belief" to "denying the existence of god or gods, atheism varies in extremity from strong atheism to weak atheism. “Atheism is commonly divided into two types: strong atheism and weak atheism. …Strong atheism, also sometimes referred to as explicit atheism, goes one step further and involves denying the existence of at least one god, usually multiple gods, and sometimes the possible existence of any gods at all. Strong atheism is sometimes called “gnostic atheism” because people who take this position often incorporate knowledge claims into it — that is to say, they claim to know in some fashion that certain gods or indeed all gods do not or cannot exist.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/20 "2018-04-21T22:01:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Strong Atheism vs. Weak Atheism](https://www.thoughtco.com/strong-atheism-vs-weak-atheism-248406) > “Atheism is commonly divided into two types: strong atheism and weak atheism. …Strong atheism, also sometimes referred to as explicit atheism, goes one step further and involves denying the existence of at least one god, usually multiple gods, and sometimes the possible existence of any gods at all. Strong atheism is sometimes called “gnostic atheism” because people who take this position often incorporate knowledge claims into it — that is to say, they claim to know in some fashion that certain gods or indeed all gods do not or cannot exist.” But that has nothing to do with hatred of religion. A firm, strong, and sincere conviction that God/gods do not exist is not logically incompatible with a wish that God/gods did exist, nor with a belief that religion can be a good thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789.md?page=2)