# Is there a word for an atheist that doesn't believe but hopes God exists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789 "2018-04-20T15:54:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/21 "2018-04-21T22:02:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There are different levels of atheism, and Strong atheism certainly contains a hatred of religion. Strong atheism involves belief that there are no gods as opposed to lack of belief in any god. So hatred of religion has nothing to do with it. In any case, which religion? I’m a strong atheist who was brought up Jewish, and I look back on my religious experience quite fondly, certainly with no hate. Any hatred I might have for oppressive religions I had back when I was a believer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/22 "2018-04-21T22:11:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Negative and positive atheism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism) > > [Strong Atheism vs. Weak Atheism](https://www.thoughtco.com/strong-atheism-vs-weak-atheism-248406) > “Atheism is commonly divided into two types: strong atheism and weak atheism. …Strong atheism, also sometimes referred to as explicit atheism, goes one step further and involves denying the existence of at least one god, usually multiple gods, and sometimes the possible existence of any gods at all. Strong atheism is sometimes called “gnostic atheism” because people who take this position often incorporate knowledge claims into it — that is to say, they claim to know in some fashion that certain gods or indeed all gods do not or cannot exist.” Your second source is incoherent. Almost all religious believers deny the existence of multiple gods - those believed in by other religions. That does not make them atheists in the slightest. The source goes on to say that explicit atheists in their terms have a burden of proof, which seems correct. But there is a big difference about claiming to disprove a selected set of gods versus all gods. The characteristics of certain gods, like tri-omni gods, are logically inconsistent, so disproving them is simple. Some gods are claimed to have done things we can prove did not happen, like creating the earth 6,000 years ago. But as I’ve said before I’ve seen only one person in over 40 years of online discussion claiming to be able to prove (or claiming to know) that no gods exist. Since atheism is about all gods, not a selected subset, explicit atheism is not a very useful concept. Deists, who believe that no gods exist except their unprovable unfalsifiable hidden god, are not atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/23 "2018-04-21T22:13:23Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Are they a proper atheist? “faith is the substance of things hoped for?” A kid who lacks belief in Santa might well wish that he really did exist. Especially if she gets clothes for Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/24 "2018-04-21T22:15:02Z")
Depressed. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/25 "2018-04-21T23:05:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > A kid who lacks belief in Santa might well wish that he really did exist. > Especially if she gets clothes for Christmas. I was a strong a-Santa-ist from about age 6, for 11 months of the year. But I always came back to believing every December! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/26 "2018-04-22T00:42:42Z")
Ignorant, but hopeful? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/27 "2018-04-22T07:25:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Negative and positive atheism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism) > > [Strong Atheism vs. Weak Atheism](https://www.thoughtco.com/strong-atheism-vs-weak-atheism-248406) > “Atheism is commonly divided into two types: strong atheism and weak atheism. …Strong atheism, also sometimes referred to as explicit atheism, goes one step further and involves denying the existence of at least one god, usually multiple gods, and sometimes the possible existence of any gods at all. Strong atheism is sometimes called “gnostic atheism” because people who take this position often incorporate knowledge claims into it — that is to say, they claim to know in some fashion that certain gods or indeed all gods do not or cannot exist.” I stand by my point. “atheism” is merely the lack of belief. You can’t have _less_ than the _lack_ of a belief. You may go choose to go further than that but that requires further description and terminology that maybe borrows the word “atheist” but is actually describing a very different position indeed. All people without hair are bald. Someone who hates hair and removes it all and thinks anyone with hair is stupid and ignorant is also bald but you wouldn’t describe them as “strongly bald” ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/28 "2018-04-22T09:12:27Z")
Weak atheism entails passive lack of belief. “I don’t believe that God exists.” Strong atheism entails active disbelief. “I believe that God does not exist.” ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/29 "2018-04-22T16:16:45Z")
Regarding the question in the Original Post: I don’t know of such a word. I’m agnostic about the existence of such a word, but strongly suspect there is not one. Some quick searches for topics such a “human desire for religious beliefs” and “human desire to believe in a deity” didn’t reveal any useful single words related to the topic. Sidebar: I did learn about the Argument From Desire.(Wikipedia excerpt): _The argument from desire is an argument for the existence of God and/or a heavenly afterlife. The best-known defender of the argument is the Christian writer C. S. Lewis. Briefly and roughly, the argument states that humans’ natural desire for eternal happiness must be capable of satisfaction, because all natural desires are capable of satisfaction. Versions of the argument have been offered since the Middle Ages, and the argument continues to have defenders today._ ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/30 "2018-04-22T17:32:23Z")
Then you have the dyslexic, insomniac agnostic who lies awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/31 "2018-04-22T19:02:55Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I stand by my point. “atheism” is merely the lack of belief. You can’t have _less_ than the _lack_ of a belief. > You may go choose to go further than that but that requires further description and terminology that maybe borrows the word “atheist” but is actually describing a very different position indeed. > > All people without hair are bald. Someone who hates hair and removes it all and thinks anyone with hair is stupid and ignorant is also bald but you wouldn’t describe them as “strongly bald” - Well, that’s just like, your opinion, man. \* However, the rest of the world disagrees with you. Certainly you can have degrees of “bald”; I have one friend who shaves it all, cueball. Another has a little fringe around the ears and back. Both are “bald”. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/32 "2018-04-22T19:07:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, the rest of the world disagrees with you. > > Certainly you can have degrees of “bald”; I have one friend who shaves it all, cueball. Another has a little fringe around the ears and back. Both are “bald”. I don’t think **Novelty Bobble** actually said what you think he said. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/33 "2018-04-22T19:57:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > - > > Well, that’s just like, your opinion, man. \* > > However, the rest of the world disagrees with you. A lot of people in the world think a lot of things that don’t stand up to scrutiny. A “strong” atheist makes no sense, like “quite unique”. It is a clumsy attempt to make the concept of atheism mutable. It isn’t. It is an either/or proposition. If you want to make the point that some some atheists make further claims then please do so, as it is clearly the case, but the nature of their _atheism_ is not changed at all. It is not _stronger_, just as mine is not _weaker_. We both hold exactly the same quantity of belief in supernatural deities…nil. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/34 "2018-04-22T20:05:29Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > A “strong” atheist makes no sense, like “quite unique”. It is a clumsy attempt to make the concept of atheism mutable. It isn’t. It is an either/or proposition. You may be taking the word “strong” too literally. I don’t know whether the distinction **mbh** made is a useful one, but for those who think it is, it makes sense to refer to “strong” and “weak” atheism as per the definition **mbh** gave. > [@mbh](#): > > Weak atheism entails passive lack of belief. “I don’t believe that God exists.” > > Strong atheism entails active disbelief. “I believe that God does not exist.” ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/35 "2018-04-23T00:12:56Z")
If there is no such word, I suppose we could always coin one. [Desidero](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desidero#Latin)theist, perhaps. (I am an atheist, meaning I lack a belief in any sort of God or gods. I am a strong atheist with respect to many of the well-established definitions of “God” found in major world religions, meaning I believe there is not only no evidence _for_ the existence of those entities as defined, but that there is substantial evidence _against_ the existence of those entities, and/or that there are significant logical problems and contradictions in the established definitions of those entities. I am not particularly a “desiderotheist” myself, although I will confess to a certain emotional desire for some sort of personal survival after death for myself and various loved ones–even as intellectually I understand there are all sorts of probably insuperable issues with immortality–and I also have some emotional desire for the existence of things like “absolute truth” or “objective morality”, even though intellectually I don’t think they’re possible.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/36 "2018-04-23T07:19:26Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You may be taking the word “strong” too literally. I don’t know whether the distinction **mbh** made is a useful one, but for those who think it is, it makes sense to refer to “strong” and “weak” atheism as per the definition **mbh** gave. One way in which the definition is useful is for the case of someone who has never encountered the concept of a god. He is a weak atheist. Once he studies the concept, assuming he stays atheist, he might move to strong or stay weak. But both are atheists, and neither make any knowledge claims whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/37 "2018-04-23T08:32:10Z")
I call myself an envious atheist. Maybe that’s a term that fits. At certain times more than others, I envy those that have a true belief in a greater power that is intimately involved in their lives. And being able to think that we will see our dead loved ones again. When someone I loved died recently, I think it would have been easier to deal with mentally if I could think “they’re in a better place now”, or “one day I’ll see them again”. If you truly believe that, it’s got to be so comforting. I lack that, and I’m envious of it. BUt, then again, I love seeing my kids get excited for Santa Clause. I’m not envious of it, but it the same time I know once they find out the truth there is a loss. They had such fun believing in magic. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/38 "2018-04-23T10:24:08Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You may be taking the word “strong” too literally. I don’t know whether the distinction **mbh** made is a useful one, but for those who think it is, it makes sense to refer to “strong” and “weak” atheism as per the definition **mbh** gave. Perhaps I am, but I think I distrust the motivations of people who want to attach the words “weak” and “strong” as some sort of judgement on the validity of holding the position of “atheist”. I suspect that some who aren’t atheists want the leeway to have those terms taken literally. I’m an atheist, I don’t claim I know there is no god or gods but I don’t think that my position deserves the prefix “weak”. I carefully filter and monitor evidence for the supernatural and consider the philosophical aspects as well. Nothing comes up to scratch , nothing suggests the necessity or inevitability of gods. I think “weak” is a poor choice of word for that position. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/39 "2018-04-23T10:49:20Z")
> [@nate](#): > > At certain times more than others, I envy those that have a true belief in a greater power that is intimately involved in their lives. And being able to think that we will see our dead loved ones again. > > When someone I loved died recently, I think it would have been easier to deal with mentally if I could think “they’re in a better place now”, or “one day I’ll see them again”. If you truly believe that, it’s got to be so comforting. I lack that, and I’m envious of it. BUt, then again, I love seeing my kids get excited for Santa Clause. I’m not envious of it, but it the same time I know once they find out the truth there is a loss. They had such fun believing in magic. I get the best of both worlds by reflecting on the fact that I don’t know for certain. Meaning: I’m very sure I’ll never see any loved ones again, so I need to make every effort to make things right with them within my short lifetime. But, when grieving the loss of someone, it helps me to think “I can’t _rule out_ that this is a simulation and they’re outside it now” or whatever. > [@Novelty Bobble](#): > > Perhaps I am, but I think I distrust the motivations of people who want to attach the words “weak” and “strong” as some sort of judgement on the validity of holding the position of “atheist”. I suspect that some who aren’t atheists want the leeway to have those terms taken literally. Disagree. IME most people who use the terms “strong atheism” and “weak atheism” are weak atheists. They are trying to explain that they don’t claim knowledge that there are no gods. I don’t think I’ve \*ever \*heard a \*theist \*use these terms, because they very often wish to consider or claim atheism is also a “belief”. Making the distinction between strong and weak atheism only serves to show that actually, no, the majority of atheists are not making any claim. They are simply unconvinced by the evidence presented for god(s). But yes personally, I prefer to explain the terms “gnostic” and “agnostic”, and call myself, like the majority of atheists I think, an _agnostic atheist_. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789/40 "2018-04-23T10:56:17Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Atheism is the _belief_ that God does not exist. Carl Sagan himself said that atheism is just as faith-based as theism. Regardless of who said that, it’s not right—atheism (weak atheism, at least) is a lack of belief, and belief and a lack thereof don’t stand on the same epistemic footing. After all, if somebody comes to you with some claim, you don’t either believe or disbelieve all willy-nilly, you’ll demand reasons to belief—so the default state is a lack of belief, which ought to only be abandoned if given sufficient reason. If asked, “why don’t you believe x?”, a valid answer is always “I have no reason to”; but if asked, “why do you believe x?”, it doesn’t suffice to answer “I have no reason not to.” Even strong atheism isn’t on the same level as theism: it requires just one belief, that there are no gods, while theism requires believing that some particular set of deities exists, while others don’t. So while the positive belief in the non-existence of any gods may ultimately be an item of faith, and arbitrary to that degree, the theist is more arbitrary on the sense that he doesn’t merely require a blanket statement applying to all gods equally, but rather, an arbitrary selection from this set. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-an-atheist-that-doesnt-believe-but-hopes-god-exists/812789.md?page=3)