# Is there a word for this particular sort of frame narrative? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979 "2010-05-19T06:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/1 "2010-05-19T06:03:09Z")
I’ve read a few books where the author set up a framework for his story that makes it look like it’s based on something real, but in reality the framework itself is fiction as well. For example: The Princess Bride: author pretends he’s taken the story from an old Italian novel and weaves this elaborate narrative about how he came to discover the novel and rewrite it Life of Pi: author says the story is based on interviews with an actual shipwreck survivor Memoirs of a Geisha: author says the story is based on interviews with an actual former geisha The Beekeeper’s Apprentice: author says the story is based on a mysterious package she received in the mail, with a bundle of papers in it which turn out to be the memoirs of a girl who worked with Sherlock Holmes I know that a story within a story is called a frame narrative, but is there a name for a frame narrative where the frame is set up to make the fictional story take on the air of a non-fictional account? ---
**Author:** ![Bogeyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3e96dc/32.png) [@Bogeyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bogeyman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/2 "2010-05-19T09:53:34Z")
In German this is called _herausgeberfiktion_ or _manuskriptfiktion_. (n.b. I think “Fiktion” here refers to the fiction that the author is merely the editor or publisher of a found manuscript, interview transcript, etc, not to a sub-genre of fiction.) I haven’t found a corresponding English term. People at my favourite user edited German-English [dictionary](http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=316597&idForum=1&lp=ende&lang=en)seem to think that _metadiegetic frame_ or _metanarrative frame_ might work but I’m doubtful; metadiegetic and metanarrative have, if I recall correctly, narrowly defined uses in literary theory that do not match this. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/3 "2010-05-19T09:59:59Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Memoirs of a Geisha: author says the story is based on interviews with an actual former geisha But that part is true, and I don’t think it appeared as part of the story, did it? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/4 "2010-05-19T11:47:18Z")
It’s quite similar to the [Literary Agent Hypothesis](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LiteraryAgentHypothesis). And, as far as I can tell, that’s not just something TVTropes made up. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/5 "2010-05-19T12:27:36Z")
Most framing stories work this way; that’s the entire point. There are very few stories where the frame doesn’t have someone setting a background and then going into the main narrative (I suppose John Barth’s “Frame Tale” would count, but that’s very unusual). The goal is to add verisimilitude to the story. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/6 "2010-05-19T14:50:29Z")
Even JRR Tolkien used this type of thing…the literary conceit was that he’d found the Red Book of Westmarch, a book about the history of Middle-Earth, written by Bilbo, Frodo and Sam, with translations of Elvish tales as well, and translated it into English. It wasn’t used as an overt frame for the books, but was mentioned in the Appendices and a bit in the Hobbit, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/7 "2010-05-19T15:09:44Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I’ve read a few books where the author set up a framework for his story that makes it look like it’s based on something real, but in reality the framework itself is fiction as well. For example: > > Memoirs of a Geisha: author says the story is based on interviews with an actual former geisha? > [@Koxinga](#): > > But that part is true, and I don’t think it appeared as part of the story, did it? The story is framed as an interview between the geisha and the fictional “translator” Professor Haarhuis. The fact that Golden actually did research, including interviewing a former geisha, does not make the frame “true.” The rest of the story is also fiction. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/8 "2010-05-19T15:27:40Z")
Is the literary conceit described by the OP considered different in quality from that in things like _Canterbury Tales_ or _The Decameron_? In other words, is a book supposedly taken from documentary evidence that is as fictional as the plot itself the same as a book describing stories as told by a group of people to each other? Also, moving from literary to musical, Amanda Palmer and Jason Webley have a project going called [Evelyn Evelyn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Evelyn), which is supposedly a pair of conjoined twins discovered on MySpace by Palmer and talked into recording their songs. It is, in reality, Palmer and Webley singing, but the backstory has garnered interesting reactions, including outrage by certain conjoined-twin-advocates for “exploiting” the condition. The songs are cute, though. (I get Elephant Elephant running on constant loop through my head if I listen to it once) ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-for-this-particular-sort-of-frame-narrative/539979/9 "2010-05-19T17:37:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Most framing stories work this way; that’s the entire point. There are very few stories where the frame doesn’t have someone setting a background and then going into the main narrative (I suppose John Barth’s “Frame Tale” would count, but that’s very unusual). The goal is to add verisimilitude to the story. There certainly are exceptions, though. Off the top of my head, Eddison’s _Worm Ouroboros_ begins with a frame that is just as fantastic as the story that follows: a guy mind-travels to Mercury and gets the tour guide treatment from a talking bird.