# Is there a word in English for the snake-charmer's instrument? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 11, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000 "2006-02-11T16:31:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/1 "2006-02-11T16:31:51Z")
The been, that is. Here’s a linky: [http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian\_music/pungi.html](http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/pungi.html) ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/2 "2006-02-11T16:37:59Z")
Surely _flute_ is too non-specific, right? Also, various _recorders_ look a lot like pictures of snake-charmers unless you get close enough to see all the differences. _Fifes_ are usually more transverse (played off to the side rather than down in front), but that might also work as a substitute name. If you had walked up to me and said “Have you ever seen an Indian snake charmer?” I would most likely say “You mean the guy with the flute?” Hope that helps a little. It can’t be much. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/3 "2006-02-11T16:53:59Z")
It’s a reed instrument, so it’s not a flute or a recorder, neither of which use reeds. It uses a fixed beating reed with an air reservoir, so the closest Western equivalent would be to a bagpipe, but it’s not a bagpipe, if you define bagpipe as “a pipe with a bag”. The empty gourd fulfills the same function of air reservoir as the bagpipe’s bag. Question: why does it need an English name? Why not just call it what it is, which is a pungi? We don’t try to find English names for instruments like the oud and the bouzouki–why for the pungi? (Not meaning to sound pissy, I assume you were just curious. 🙂 ) All the websites I looked at said that “bin” is not the correct name for it, BTW, being a corruption of “vina”. All the Indian folk music websites use “pungi”. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/4 "2006-02-11T17:00:52Z")
It’s a reed, so members of the flute family aren’t a real good match for it. This site calls it a “bungi” rather than a “pungi” and lists it as a “clarinet variation”: [http://library.thinkquest.org/C001468F/library/instruments/woodwinds/clarinet.htm](http://library.thinkquest.org/C001468F/library/instruments/woodwinds/clarinet.htm) The clarinet is probably the standard orchestral instrument best capable of imitating it, or rather, two clarinets, one with the boring job of playing the drone pipe part. I think if we had an urgent need to refer to the thing in English all the time we would simply take “punji” as a loan word. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/5 "2006-02-11T17:22:40Z")
It may be that many uninformed people (like me) just never think to look for more precision in the names of musical instruments, but if you enter “snake charmer flute” into a Yahoo! search you get over 40,000 hits. Some of them mention _been_ as being the more proper term, but if the typical English-speaking person on the street (the type Jay Leno learns don’t know the current President’s name or gender) were asked to name the tootling thing snake charmers blow at snakes, I bet the Family Feud #1 answer would be _flute_. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/6 "2006-02-11T17:30:47Z")
Well, the term for the “flute” part of the [bagpipes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagpipes) is chanter, so that is what I would call the instrument you mention. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/7 "2006-02-11T17:33:05Z")
Heh, adding, either chanter [shawm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawm) or “reed flute” is what I’d call it. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/8 "2006-02-11T18:50:04Z")
Even if “_been_” is not the correct term for it\< I think I will stick with it. I think if I said “_phungi_” around the people I normally say it, they either wouldn’t recognize it or look at me like :dubious:. We’ve always called it \*been, \*and probably will continue to do so, even in the face of a million experts. _looks sheepish_ We’re stubborn like that. And I’ve always heard North Indians who sometimes are and sometimes are not music professionals refer to it as been. Hindi is my first language, and I’ve not heard the other term. As for why in English, I was just wondering. No real reason. Mostly because no one knows what it is, if I use its real name. I was wondering if there was a more accepted term in the Western world…being that I live there! ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/9 "2006-02-11T18:53:41Z")
“reed flute” sounds rather oxymoronic, given the standard taxonomy of instruments in western music (flute = a specific instrument or a general class of reedless woodwinds such as piccolos or recorders), but it does seem to be an accepted term for referring to this sort of instrument when encountered in other cultures. Go ahead and call it a “reed flute” if you like, I guess. That would be a large class of instruments. I suspect you still need to use the Indian name as a loan word if you want to be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/10 "2006-02-11T19:39:18Z")
Isn’t “pungi” or “been” good enough? There’s no English word for lots of ethnic instruments. Chandra and David (the OP’s link) were at one point my teachers. Nice people, been to their house many times and played out with David a bunch too. I’m even on one of their albums. **edwino** , guest sitar player. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/11 "2006-02-11T20:19:57Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > “reed flute” sounds rather oxymoronic, given the standard taxonomy of instruments in western music (flute = a specific instrument or a general class of reedless woodwinds such as piccolos or recorders), but it does seem to be an accepted term for referring to this sort of instrument when encountered in other cultures. Go ahead and call it a “reed flute” if you like, I guess. That would be a large class of instruments. I suspect you still need to use the Indian name as a loan word if you want to be more specific. Many years ago, my music tecaher told us that one of the flute’s characteristics was that you blow over it, rather than into it, which makes it unlike a recorder. I wouldn’t know how to classify a recorder then. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/12 "2006-02-11T21:02:54Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Many years ago, my music tecaher told us that one of the flute’s characteristics was that you blow over it, rather than into it, which makes it unlike a recorder. I wouldn’t know how to classify a recorder then. I’ve seen recorders defined as a type of “end blown flute” often enough that I’m willing to just go along with it. The term “fipple flute” appears to apply also: [http://www.sbgmusic.com/html/teacher/reference/instruments/recorder.html](http://www.sbgmusic.com/html/teacher/reference/instruments/recorder.html) I suspect different sources will yield different ideas as to what exactly constitutes a “flute”. The wiki article classifies an ocarine as a “vessel flute”: > **[Ocarina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocarina)** > > The ocarina is a wind musical instrument—a type of vessel flute. Variations exist, but a typical ocarina is an enclosed space with four to twelve finger holes and a mouthpiece that projects from the body. It is traditionally made from clay or ceramic, but other materials are also used—such as plastic, wood, glass, metal, or bone. > The ocarina belongs to a very old family of instruments, believed to date back over 12,000 years. Ocarina-type instruments have been of particular importance in Chinese... Thw wiki article on “flute” admits a broad classification: > [@](#): > > There are several broad classes of flutes. With most flutes, the musician blows directly onto the edge of the flute. However, some flutes, such as the recorder, tin whistle, whistle, fujara, and ocarina have a duct that directs the air onto the edge (an arrangement that is termed a “fipple”). This makes the instrument easier to play, but takes a degree of control away from the musician. Usually, fipple flutes are not referred to as flutes, even though the physics, technique and sound are similar. > > Another division is between side-blown (or transverse) flutes, such as the Western concert flute, piccolo, fife, di zi, and bansuri; and end-blown flutes, such as the recorder, ney, kaval, quena, shakuhachi and tonette. The player of a side-blown flute uses a hole on the side of the tube to produce a tone, instead of blowing on an end of the tube. The earliest transverse flute is a chi flute discovered in the Tomb of Marquis Yi of Zeng at the Suizhou site, Hubei province, China. It dates from 433 BC, of the later Zhou Dynasty. It is of lacquered bamboo with closed ends. It has five stops that are at the flute’s side instead of top. Chi flutes are mentioned in Shi Jing, compiled and edited by Confucius. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/13 "2006-02-11T21:32:21Z")
I’d call it a type of shawm. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/14 "2006-02-11T21:43:16Z")
I have no idea what a “real” middleeastern snake charmer would use, but most of the examples provided by Hollywood have used a bagpiper’s practice chanter. Same finger hole spacing but plays a lot quieter and an octave lower than a pipe chanter, due to straight rather than tapered bore. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/15 "2006-02-11T21:46:56Z")
The Hobson-Jobson Anglo-Indian dictionary is a good place to look for answers to “What is the English word for [this specifically Indian thing known in the colonial period].” Searchable online at [Hobson-Jobson](http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/hobsonjobson/). I couldn’t find anything in a quick search, but maybe someone with more of a clue about instruments could. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/16 "2006-02-12T06:37:50Z")
**Zabali\_Clawbane** and **yBeayf** are correct that the generic name for this type of instrument in English is shawm. “Clarinet” usually refers to the specific instrument of European design by that name, while “shawm” could be an instrument from anywhere in the world that shares a similar design. Likewise, the generic name for oboe-like instruments around the world is _hautboy_. For violin-like instruments: _fiddle_. For drums around the world: _membranophone_. The article linked by **Anaamika** says the word _bin_ comes from Sanskrit _vina_. It seems obvious because in Hindi the change of Sanskrit v \> Hindi b is a regular sound shift. However, the etymology in the _Oxford Hindi Dictionary_, while it points out that _bin_ is a regular Hindi variant for the stringed instrument _vina_, derives the homonym _bin_ meaning the double shawm from a different Sanskrit word, _venu_. Both words share the retroflex /n/, which is probably how they got confused. _Venu_ means ‘a bamboo, reed, cane; a flute, fife, pipe’. The web page’s author is mistaken. The original word for the _bin_ meant reed or flute, not stringed instrument. The word _venu_ probably altered its vowel from e to i because it became assimilated to the _vina_, the more prestigious instrument with a similar sounding name. The origin of the name _vina_ is “of doubtful derivation” according to the Monier-Williams _Sanskrit-English Dictionary_. The word _phunkni_ comes from the Hindi verb _phunkna_ meaning ‘to be blown’.The _Oxford Hindi Dictionary_ gave three meanings for it: 1. a bamboo or metal blowing-tube (for a fire). 2. a bellows. 3. colloq. obs. a pistol. Nothing about being a musical instrument. Maybe this word is used for the shawm thingy in another related modern Indo-Aryan language. As for this specific instrument the _bin_ or _phunkni_, if it needs a different name in English, what about the sitar, vina, tanpura, tabla, mrdangam, etc.? While I was at it, I looked up how to say _violin, piano, cello_, etc. in Hindi. Guess what. Hindi uses the English names for these. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/17 "2006-02-12T07:07:20Z")
Sorry, I was wrong about _phunkni_, I thought it might be close because it means a blowpipe. I looked for it under ph- because **Anaamika** spelled it that way. (In Devanagari writing, \ and \ are two different letters.) Then I found _pungi_, which the dictionary says is a variant of _paungi_. OK, so I flipped the pages till I found _paungi_: **a pipe; snake-charmer’s pipe or drone.** The definition it gives for _bin_ (the reed variety) says: **Snake-charmer’s flute, made from a gourd.** There are your answers to the OP, Mika. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/18 "2006-02-12T07:34:34Z")
[Pungi Page with sound file link](http://www.engineering.usu.edu/ece/faculty/wheeler/NIU/Pungi.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/19 "2006-02-12T16:15:14Z")
I wrote to the web site owner and got this E-mail in response today. Dear Johanna Thank you VERY much. This makes much more sense. I have corrected the page. Peace David Courtney [david@chandrakantha.com](mailto:david@chandrakantha.com) NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice; and certainly without probable cause. They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You have no recourse, nor any protection – save to call for the impeachment of the current [p] resident. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-a-word-in-english-for-the-snake-charmers-instrument/344000/20 "2006-02-12T19:44:06Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > I’d call it a type of shawm. Woodwind player’s nitpick: A shawm, ancestor of the oboe, has a double reed that you insert directly into your mouth. A pungi has the reed isolated at the end of the air chamber (the gourd), and the player’s mouth never comes anywhere near it; you blow into the gourd and the reed at the other end of it vibrates. The two are similar only in that they both utilize reeds, but they’re as different as an oboe and a harmonica.