# Is there actually a way to kill someone and leave no sign of it being a murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087 "2016-02-14T03:02:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/21 "2016-02-14T05:03:16Z")
I read somewhere that in my state, it’s unlawful for a felon to be employed on a pig farm (because it affords convenience in utterly destroying biological evidence). I’ll have to dig that up. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/22 "2016-02-14T05:08:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’ll have to dig that up. I see what you did there 😉 Indeed: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2xUynRdzzsM/maxresdefault.jpg "Six Pieces, Sixteen Pigs - Snatch (5/8) Movie CLIP (2000) HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUynRdzzsM) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/23 "2016-02-14T05:11:37Z")
[quote=“coremelt, post:22, topic:746087”] I see what you did there 😉 Indeed: [/QUOTE] That was a pleasure to watch. Nicely done. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/24 "2016-02-14T05:23:22Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > My psychotic chemistry teacher used to emphasis that all you had to do was dissolve osmium tetroxide in DMSO, and paint any surface that your target was expected to touch. He was a lunatic, so I have little reason to doubt him. Doubt all lunatics. Osmium tetroxide, dissolved in whatsoever, would do little more than staining the skin of your fingers. There are indeed contact poisons, some of them readily available or easily synthesized (like dimethyl mercury or tetraethyl pyrophosphate) of which a mere finger touch might be enough to kill a man. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/25 "2016-02-14T06:10:20Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > My first guess would be use of some inert gas like nitrogen. I don’t know how you could administer it without a violent struggle though. I don’t think there’d be much of a struggle if the person is asleep…suffocation panic/reflex is related to carbon dioxide build up in the blood. As long as you rig up a mask that allows the person to breathe out normally, then in theory at least they will just fall into a progressively deeper sleep… ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/26 "2016-02-14T06:17:36Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > As long as you rig up a mask that allows the person to breathe out normally, then in theory at least they will just fall into a progressively deeper sleep… Some people might sleep deep enough but I’d wake up instantly if someone held a mask to my face. And if you use some kind of sleeping agent then traces of that will be found by an autopsy. I also believe inert gas asphyxiation could be detected by an autopsy but it wouldn’t be commonly checked for. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/27 "2016-02-14T06:28:40Z")
Avada Kadavra? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/28 "2016-02-14T06:42:57Z")
Are there diseases you can intentionally infect somebody with? Like injecting somebody with ebola virus? Could a pathologist distinguish between a naturally incurred disease and one which was intentionally inflicted on somebody? ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/29 "2016-02-14T12:26:56Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I read somewhere that in my state, it’s unlawful for a felon to be employed on a pig farm (because it affords convenience in utterly destroying biological evidence). I’ll have to dig that up. That was going to be my contribution. Push the dead person walking into a pig sty. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/30 "2016-02-14T14:37:19Z")
> [@jerry\_smissingfinger](#): > > icycle\>eye Uh, no…punctured eyeball, damaged brain. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/31 "2016-02-14T14:39:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are there diseases you can intentionally infect somebody with? Like injecting somebody with ebola virus? Could a pathologist distinguish between a naturally incurred disease and one which was intentionally inflicted on somebody? Unexplained puncture wounds in association with unusual diseases/conditions are likely to be picked up by an astute forensic pathologist. You could always culture the agent of [acute septicemic melioidosis a.k.a. the Vietnamese Time Bomb](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1279324/), smear some on the sharp business end of a booby-trapped ornamental box and send it to your adversary. Just don’t visit them in the throes of illness to gloat. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/32 "2016-02-14T15:24:25Z")
> [@jerry\_smissingfinger](#): > > icycle\>eye To-pocketa-to-pocketa-to-pocketa… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/33 "2016-02-14T16:03:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Unexplained puncture wounds in association with unusual diseases/conditions are likely to be picked up by an astute forensic pathologist. Only if you’re impatient. Otherwise, you can pick a disease that takes a few weeks to kill its victim and figure any puncture marks will have healed up by the time they die. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/34 "2016-02-14T16:21:15Z")
The problem is that, for obvious reasons, we rarely hear about successful murders, so we have no idea how many there are, or how they were done. I would surmise that each one would have to be individually tailored - an addict might overdose without anyone being too surprised; a hunter can be accidentally shot. I think that disposing of a body, and explaining the disappearance would be harder to get away with than pushing an inebriated victim down the stairs. One essential, I think, is to work alone. Accomplices are always going to leave you vulnerable. Another is to plan well ahead: Set the scene; establish a pattern, however you do it, the death should not be a surprise to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/35 "2016-02-14T16:57:18Z")
A guy’s wife died in a car crash. Local cops agreed that the cause of death was the crash. He sued Ford claiming that her death was caused by the airbag. Ford determined that she was murdered and the local cops agree. However they did not think they had enough evidence to put him on trial. He could eventually go on trial. Moral of the story , if you kill someone don’t sue a giant corporation about it. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/36 "2016-02-14T17:17:06Z")
Polonium on an umbrella? If you can wait 6 months, you can inject some rabies vaccine. The injection site will be long healed. I hear tell that an OD of insulin will be fatal, but there will be a puncture mark if someone looks hard enough. Maybe under a finger nail. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/37 "2016-02-14T17:24:36Z")
Dose them with a powerful street drug that induces paranoia and aggression, give them a realistic toy gun (so it isn’t traceable) and drop them off at a police station. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/38 "2016-02-14T17:33:31Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Dose them with a powerful street drug that induces paranoia and aggression, give them a realistic toy gun (so it isn’t traceable) and drop them off at a police station. This is very unlikely to work even in the US. Even PCP and bath salts don’t work that way, the victim is likely to immediately drop the fake gun and go wander off aimlessly staring at reflections of coloured lights or start ranting about what the machine elves are saying to him. They will probably end up arrested and being given a psych assessment, dead probably not. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/39 "2016-02-14T19:29:13Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > > [@Gatopescado](#): > > > > Push 'em off a cliff. > > No suicide. People fall off cliffs inadvertently all the time. There are many scenic cliffs along the sea coast in California that aren’t all that stable, especially after a rain. “Did he jump, did he fall, did a spot of cliff give way, or was he pushed?” is a tough question to answer definitively in the absence of witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087/40 "2016-02-14T19:34:21Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Polonium on an umbrella? > > If you can wait 6 months, you can inject some rabies vaccine. The injection site will be long healed. I hear tell that an OD of insulin will be fatal, but there will be a puncture mark if someone looks hard enough. Maybe under a finger nail. If the target is an insulin-using diabetic or an IV drug user the existence of one more fairly fresh puncture site will not be suspicious. There are many other legit IV drugs that folks receive as medical treatment, and if the target is one of those that’d be anther route of camouflage. For all these things the big question is how much effort the coroner / ME will make in trying to determine cause of death. Some local meth head turns up dead they’re gonna spend 2 minutes looking for gunshot or stab wounds, then declare “drug overdose”. Case closed. The same thing happens to a celebrity or prominent politician or business leader and the investigation will be very much more thorough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-actually-a-way-to-kill-someone-and-leave-no-sign-of-it-being-a-murder/746087.md?page=3)