# Is there an Atheist symbol ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400 "2003-11-04T18:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/61 "2003-11-06T21:53:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hyjyljyj \* > \*\*Intellectually rigorous ones might. Others might merely insist that their mind had separated itself from reality, or that the universe was imaginary and “Someone” was playing with the rules, or that it was an elaborate hoax by space aliens. This is the difference between skepticism (open-minded) and cynicism (not). > > On Symbols for Atheists > > Why pi? It is not readily apparent how the relationship between the circumference and diameter of a geometric shape symbolizes anything about one’s belief or disbelief in a divine Creator. And the idea that a given number, in this case 3.14159…, has any sort of mystical or magically symbolic quality would seem ironically out of place in a discussion about an emblem for people who typically eschew magic and mysticism. > > Moreover, it seems hasty to bestow the mantle of logic and rationality on atheists. It is not automatically more rational to assume that the universe, life and especially consciousness simply burst into existence than to consider that they were deliberately designed and created by a superior, infinite and rational Being, which already possessed consciousness in order to pass it on. The fact that our brains and minds lack the capacity to grasp how and why such a Being could exist eternally or create life is not in doubt, but it’s irrelevant as to which explanation is more plausible. Man’s thousands of years of collective scientific knowledge and technology have yet to create even one simple non-nucleated living cell from inorganic matter, let alone a blade of grass or an animal. He has not decoded the original design of the spark of life—how can he be _certain_ it happened accidentally? > > Some interesting quotes… > > ”I’m not an atheist, and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations." > > –Albert Einstein, from Einstein and Religion by Max Jammer, Princeton University Press > > “Once cannot look at this Universe with all living productions and man without believing that all has been intelligently designed…” > > “Have we any right to assume that the Creator works by intellectual powers like those of man?” > > “There is grandeur in this view of life…having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one…” > > –Three quotes by Charles Darwin > > Sorry, folks… **Darwin was NOT an atheist.** \ > > He was a deist, in about the same league as Albert Einstein, Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and a few other noteworthy rational-mined folk. Darwin just didn’t think you had to swallow creationism (individual creation of each and every life form, esp. man) in order to accept the idea that somebody probably put all this stuff here and then had some of it start moving around and thinking. > > Having been raised Catholic, I became agnostic in my teens (meaning apparently no one knows, nor even _can_ know, with any objective certainty about God’s existence). Examining deism carefully, I found no preachers, holy books, martyrs, revelations, fantastical fables, mythology, voices in the head, mindless rituals or supposed conversations with invisible spirits. No power-crazed Mad Scientist sadistically punishing the objects of His creative mind FOREVER for perceived transgressions committed during their eye-blink of a lifetime. No easily enraged, bloodthirsty, irrational, White-Headed Dragon in need of heavy weekly financing. Just a Creator, a creation (universe), our fellow creatures, and God-given consciousness, reason and logic with which to observe and ponder them. Seems relatively rational, especially in light of the alternatives offered by atheism and religionism. > > Also, no symbol needed. \*\* So you believe in a God you can have no contact with or experience of and who has no direct involvement with you? Is it really rational to waste your time preaching that? ---
**Author:** ![hyjyljyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@hyjyljyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyjyljyj)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/62 "2003-11-07T16:38:08Z")
(Enlightening discussions with interesting people are not necessarily an irrational waste of time.) Rather than preaching “refusal” or anything else, deists find it more rational and soul-satisfying instead to foster a deep love of their fellow creatures and for the ineffable beauty of nature and the cosmos, through which they indirectly experience the Creator all day, every day. Nature is church. I find this an incredibly liberating notion, much like the notion that God didn’t really program everyone from birth to “sin” against Him, forcing Him to punish us forever in a lake of fire _after_ all. For example: Just in the past year, I’ve had my wife undergo major surgery to fuse three vertebrae in her neck, my brother nearly die of meningitis, my aunt die, my dad have a heart attack, AND my mom died just three weeks ago. A “personal relationship” with God for me right now would be Him apparently hating me and my family’s guts and wanting some of us to suffer and die miserably while the rest of us watch in anguish, for which I would waste time intensely reviling Him while pleading with him, “Why, God? Why?” Rather pointless. With six billion people just on this planet alone, the idea of a “personal” relationship with God, involving beseeching Him or imagining He really cares about making someone win the lottery or their next soccer match or not get a traffic ticket or about any of their individual daily concerns, is foreign to a lot of people. Many so appreciate the awesome lush banquet laid before them that they would be embarrassed to insist on also having it spoon-fed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/63 "2003-11-07T17:15:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry, we’ll just have to agree to differ here. You can consciously reinforce and meditate on a belief in the non-existence of god. There is a Hindu tale about such a man. He spent every minute of his life telling himself, “there is no god.” He went to heaven because he had spent his whole life thinking of god. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/64 "2003-11-07T17:48:28Z")
**hyjyljyj:** Great quotes by Einstein and Darwin. The Darwin quotes are wonderfully ironic. I’m a practicing Catholic, and these quotes pretty well sum up my world-view: that our universe looks like the product of intelligent design, and thus it is rational to assume that there is a designer out there somewhere. And as a Catholic, I beleive that the designer has told us who he is. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/65 "2003-11-07T22:33:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hyjyljyj \* > \*\* > Rather than preaching “refusal” or anything else, deists find it more rational and soul-satisfying instead to foster a deep love of their fellow creatures and for the ineffable beauty of nature and the cosmos, through which they indirectly experience the Creator all day, every day. Nature is church. I find this an incredibly liberating notion, much like the notion that God didn’t really program everyone from birth to “sin” against Him, forcing Him to punish us forever in a lake of fire _after_ all. \*\* Aww, don’t be so closed minded. It’s not only deists who “find it more rational and soul-satisfying instead to foster a deep love of their fellow creatures and for the ineffable beauty of nature and the cosmos, through which they indirectly experience the Creator all day, every day”. I’m like this too, only I don’t find a ‘god’ or sentient ‘creator’ (a being, rather than a process) a prerequisite or necessary for this world view. I’m an atheist; a god is simply superfluous. This truly is an incredibly liberating notion. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/66 "2003-11-07T22:43:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hyjyljyj \* > \*\* > Sorry, folks… **Darwin was NOT an atheist.** \ > > He was a deist, in about the same league as Albert Einstein, Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and a few other noteworthy rational-mined folk. Darwin just didn’t think you had to swallow creationism (individual creation of each and every life form, esp. man) in order to accept the idea that somebody probably put all this stuff here and then had some of it start moving around and thinking. > \*\* I’ve seen the text “I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. I think that generally… an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.” attributed to Darwin, in a letter to a clergyman. So, by his own words, he was an agnostic. Still not an athiest, but not exactly a deist either. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/67 "2003-11-07T23:13:43Z")
ufa… for a moment I thought Darwin was religious… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400/68 "2003-11-08T00:48:56Z")
**trabi** : I’m an atheist, and I don’t believe in anything. Period. I don’t accept that there is any evidence of a deity that would meet my criteria for beyond a reasonable doubt. I don’t believe in gravity. I don’t believe in photons or in electrons or in neutrons. I don’t believe in the sun or the moon or any of the planets, not even Earth. Why? I don’t need to. I have evidence for the existence of all those things. I don’t have evidence for supernatural beings, so I don’t accept their existence. So, if I was presented with conclusive (or very strong) evidence for the existence of a deity, would I believe? No more than I believe in gravity right now. I would, however, accept its existence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-atheist-symbol/211400.md?page=3)