# Is there an constitutional reason a US state has to be a democracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805 "2020-12-11T00:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/1 "2020-12-11T00:29:08Z")
So thinking about DC statehood. I think the only way DC could become a state without changing the constitution would be if it was admitted as a state (with senators, congressional representatives and general election votes) but was still ruled by congress without the usual state level elected Senate, governor etc. So assuming I’m right (a big assumption as I am absolutely not a constitutional lawyer), would that be a problem. Is there any legal reason a state could not be admitted that has none of the usual state level democratic government? AFAIK states have variations but effectively all have a state-level mirror of the federal government, with elected bicameral legislature and executive branch. Could say Hawaii, if the coup against their last queen not been been successful been admitted as a monarchy, so long as their federal elections were democratic? (Unlikely I know, but was there any constitutional reason that would prevent it?) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/2 "2020-12-11T00:35:19Z")
state governments have to be a republican form of government, so monarchy would be out. > **[Guarantee Clause](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantee_Clause)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The Guarantee Clause, also known as the Republican Form of Government Clause, is in Article IV, Section 4 of the United States Constitution, and requires the United States to guarantee every state a republican form of government and provide protection from foreign invasion and domestic violence. > Article IV, Section 4: > The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them ag... But you could have a parliamentary republic, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/3 "2020-12-11T00:59:23Z")
Hmm, could a state choosing a parliamentary structure also choose non-fixed election dates for its non-federal offices? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/4 "2020-12-11T01:12:30Z")
So, they could have life terms for elected state officials? A governor for life as long as he wins that first election and an election followed his death? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/5 "2020-12-11T01:17:18Z")
As the admission on West Virginia showed, a republican form of government is whatever Congress says it is. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/6 "2020-12-11T01:21:25Z")
Why not? Republics like Ireland and India have non-fixed terms. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/7 "2020-12-11T01:37:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > As the admission on West Virginia showed, a republican form of government is whatever Congress says it is. There wasn’t any question as to type of government then. The question was who constituted the lawful government of the state of Virginia. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why not? Republics like Ireland and India have non-fixed terms. The terms are not fixed, but they cannot exceed a certain time period either. The government of the day (what we Americans would call the administration) can call a government earlier, but they must hold an election at the end of the permissible term. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/8 "2020-12-11T01:51:23Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > AFAIK states have variations but effectively all have a state-level mirror of the federal government, with elected bicameral legislature and executive branch. Nebraska has a unicameral legislature. Beyond that, they do broadly mirror the federal government - but only broadly. In most states, the governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, attorney general, and several other equivalents of federal cabinet secretaries are independently elected officials. The division of powers between the governor and the legislature is often different, with state legislatures typically being significantly more powerful relative to the governor than Congress is relative to the President. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/9 "2020-12-11T02:13:34Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The terms are not fixed, but they cannot exceed a certain time period either. The government of the day (what we Americans would call the administration) can call a government earlier, but they must hold an election at the end of the permissible term. The legislatures have a maximum term, but the executive normally do not. Prime Minister Modi of India, for example, has won two general parliamentary elections in 2014 and 2019, but was only sworn into office after the first election in 2014. He serves an indefinite term of office, depending on confidence in the Lok Sabha. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/10 "2020-12-11T02:14:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > There wasn’t any question as to type of government then. IIRC there was a question if the 2nd Wheeling Convention was representative of the citizens of the Commonwealth of Virginia and thus a republican form of government. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/11 "2020-12-11T02:17:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > state governments have to be a republican form of government, so monarchy would be out. That seems pretty cut and dried but what if Queen Lili’uokalani had abdicated but been installed as governor for life (with an unelected advisory Senate) would that have caused problems constitutionally when statehood came around ? (Probably more of a problem for her grandchildren given statehood didn’t happen until 1959) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/12 "2020-12-11T02:19:25Z")
What about an elected queen under a constitutional monarchy? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/13 "2020-12-11T02:48:41Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > they must hold an election at the end of the permissible term. In some parliamentary systems, like Canada, it’s actually quite rare for a government to stay in office for the full term of the legislature. Elections are usually held before that fixed term expires, usually a year earlier in the case of a majority, or sometimes several years before the end of term, in the case of a minority government. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/14 "2020-12-11T03:22:25Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What about an elected queen under a constitutional monarchy? Matriarchal papacy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/15 "2020-12-11T12:08:35Z")
In some ways most states mirror the federal government, but in others they don’t, and indeed can’t. For instance, you can’t have a state senate with a set number of senators for each county in a state, because that would give more weight to some voters than others, despite that being exactly how the federal senate works. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/16 "2020-12-11T12:19:34Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What about an elected queen under a constitutional monarchy? “Republic” can mean a lot of things but one thing is definitely means is “not a monarchy.” So there can’t be a constitutional monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/17 "2020-12-11T12:30:58Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > So, they could have life terms for elected state officials? A governor for life as long as he wins that first election and an election followed his death? Answered by others above. > [@Chronos](#): > > In some ways most states mirror the federal government, but in others they don’t, and indeed can’t. For instance, you can’t have a state senate with a set number of senators for each county in a state, because that would give more weight to some voters than others, despite that being exactly how the federal senate works. This is a key component of the Texas secessionist constitution, pretty much guaranteeing rural control of the federal government for all time. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/18 "2020-12-11T13:54:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > you can’t have a state senate with a set number of senators for each county in a state, because that would give more weight to some voters than others, despite that being exactly how the federal senate works. Not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious about this: Why can’t a state allot, say, two state senators for each county? Maybe I’m missing something pretty obvious and fundamental. Plus, in a thread where folks are tossing around the idea of parliamentary governments in U.S. states, it doesn’t seem weird at all. I would agree that it wouldn’t be fair (like the US Senate) but that doesn’t mean it would be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/19 "2020-12-11T14:24:50Z")
Some state like Vermont should experiment with a single house Parliament of about 120 members (about one for every 5,000 residents). Then we could find out if it would work here. But I fear that this is another idea that, like serious election reform, politicians would never consider even though it might benefit voters. In addition to that pesky and disproportionately powerful election industry obstructing the proposal, there’s also the concern that US politicians would never call for early elections no matter how low the public’s confidence sank. They’d hang on until forced by the calendar. Our politicians remain a fairly shitty, self-serving bunch but I don’t know whether it’s our systems or our national character that makes them so. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805/20 "2020-12-11T14:45:00Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I would agree that it wouldn’t be fair (like the US Senate) but that doesn’t mean it would be illegal. It would be unconstitutional, as a breach of the 14th Amendment, as decided by the Supreme Court in _Reynolds v Sims_: > **[Reynolds v. Sims](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._Sims)** > > Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that the electoral districts of state legislative chambers must be roughly equal in population. Along with Baker v. Carr (1962) and Wesberry v. Sanders (1964), it was part of a series of Warren Court cases that applied the principle of "one person, one vote" to U.S. legislative bodies. > Prior to the case, numerous state legislative chambers had districts containing unequal populations... For the majority, Warren CJ stated: > [@](#): > > … legislators represent people, not trees or [acres](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acre). Legislators are elected by voters, not farms or cities or economic interests. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-constitutional-reason-a-us-state-has-to-be-a-democracy/927805.md?page=2)