# Is there an easy way to remember what '\<' and '\>' mean in maths?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [October 27, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360 "2013-10-27T08:40:31Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/81 "2013-10-29T03:10:49Z")

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> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> I didn’t say they would. I said it doesn’t actually hurt anything to find a mnemonic for those people who do not find remembering which symbol is which easy. Arguing that we shouldn’t have this problem doesn’t actually address the problem.

Using a mnemonic should be an absolute last resort used for people whose brains don’t cotton on to pattern recognition in the same way as others (I don’t mean that disparagingly, I understand that some people just don’t “get” stuff), it should not be the go-to explanation the first time someone asks what a symbol means. The answers to this thread suggest to me that school teachers are using silly arbitrary images to explain a non arbitrary symbol and in the process they are complicating matters.

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**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/82 "2013-10-29T03:10:57Z")

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> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> It might make sense but it is the wrong answer and doesn’t actually help remembering anything.
> 
> \<snip\>
> 
> By explaining a non arbitrary symbol in an arbitrary way you are actually complicating the explanation, not simplifying it. If someone thinks it is arbitrary, then explain that it is not.

It helped me remember.

The OP probably doesn’t actually care whether it is arbitrary. He just wanted an easy way to remember. I don’t think remembering whether a symbol is arbitrary or not is no easier than remembering what the symbol means.

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**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/83 "2013-10-29T03:12:57Z")

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> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> Using a mnemonic should be an absolute last resort used for people whose brains don’t cotton on to pattern recognition in the same way as others (I don’t mean that disparagingly, I understand that some people just don’t “get” stuff), it should not be the go-to explanation the first time someone asks what a symbol means. The answers to this thread suggest to me that school teachers are using silly arbitrary images to explain a non arbitrary symbol and in the process they are complicating matters.

Yeah, that didn’t sound disparaging at all.

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**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/84 "2013-10-29T03:13:35Z")

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> [@Chessic\_Sense](#):
>
> You don’t see why “less than” meaning “get louder” is a contradiction? You don’t understand the confusion between “greater than” meaning “softer”?

For “\<”, whatever’s on the left is “less than” whatever’s on the right, whether they are numbers or loudness.

For “\>”, whatever’s on the left is “more than” whatever’s on the right, whether they are numbers or loudness.

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**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/85 "2013-10-29T03:15:15Z")

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> [@Chessic\_Sense](#):
>
> The problem I see with all of your mnemonics is they rely on having two numbers. It’s all well and good to make the alligator eat the bigger number in 3\_4, but what about if you walk into my office and see “\<4” under “weeks remaining” on my whiteboard?

That’s useful shorthand, and if it works for you, fine, but you’re not using the symbol in its standard mathematical meaning of “ **is** less than.” That may seem nitpicky, but I’ve seen plenty of math students get confused between “less than” and “is less than” and try to use the \< symbol when trying to translate something like “the width is three inches less than the length” into algebraic symbols.

I can’t think of a standard mathematical context where a \< or \> doesn’t come between two numbers (or expressions that represent numbers).

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/86 "2013-10-29T03:24:38Z")

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> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> Yeah, that didn’t sound disparaging at all.

I recognise that everyone is different and you need to be able to tailor explanations to the individual, I have some pretty big weaknesses myself. But by assuming the person you’re explaining to won’t “get” an underlying logic to something and therefore not bothering to explain the underlying logic you are doing them a great disservice. Explain the logic to them, if they don’t get it _then_ start talking about crocodiles.

Look at it this way, if someone asks you how to remember what 302 plus 457 equals, do you launch into a story about a rabbit with a litter of 302 babies and another rabbit with 457 babies and how they fell in love and got married and ended up with 759 babies, which ultimately just requires them to wrote learn the number “759”, or do you teach them how to add the numbers 1 through to 9 and then have them _apply_ what they’ve learned to the problem they have?

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**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/87 "2013-10-29T03:26:38Z")

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> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> I recognise that everyone is different and you need to be able to tailor explanations to the individual, I have some pretty big weaknesses myself. But by assuming the person you’re explaining to won’t “get” an underlying logic to something and therefore not bothering to explain the underlying logic you are doing them a great disservice. Explain the logic to them, if they don’t get it _then_ start talking about crocodiles.

When someone starts a thread asking about an easy way to remember something, I like to tell them an easy way to remember something, not any underlying theory, since that wasn’t the question.

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/88 "2013-10-29T03:32:25Z")

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> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> It helped me remember.
> 
> The OP probably doesn’t actually care whether it is arbitrary. He just wanted an easy way to remember. I don’t think remembering whether a symbol is arbitrary or not is no easier than remembering what the symbol means.

You don’t need to remember if it is arbitrary or not, you just need to understand the symbol. It’s the difference between understanding and wrote memory. Always go for understanding if you can.

Did it help you remember because you were unable to understand it, or did it help you remember because no one bothered helping you to understand it?

Those little smilies next to the box I’m typing in. Do you need to “remember” what each one means or do you understand that the represent different facial expressions? Is it a problem having to “remember” that those symbols are not arbitrary? Is it easier for the general population to remember those symbols by wrote learning or understanding that they represent facial expressions? If you found out that teachers were explaining symbols like those in terms of arbitrary stories what would you think? (The 😃 is showing his teeth because he is really happy that he has just been to the dentist.)

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/89 "2013-10-29T03:34:28Z")

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> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> When someone starts a thread asking about an easy way to remember something, I like to tell them an easy way to remember something, not any underlying theory, since that wasn’t the question.

The easiest most non convoluted way of remembering which number goes on which side of the \< symbol is that the smaller number goes on the smaller side and the larger number goes on the larger side. That way the explanation is contained wholly in the symbol itself and doesn’t require any additional ideas. you also have the benefit of a single explanation covering three symbols, \<, =, and \>.

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**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/90 "2013-10-29T03:37:37Z")

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when you learn something by forceful repetition, it is called learning by rote.

> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> When someone starts a thread asking about an easy way to remember something, I like to tell them an easy way to remember something, not any underlying theory, since that wasn’t the question.

but in this case the easy way _ **is** _ to explain what the symbol means. the OP was obviously taught (or only remembered) to link bigger than/smaller than to the symbols instead of the underlying logic, which was likely why he was confused. if this fails there are plenty of alternatives in the thread.

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**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/91 "2013-10-29T03:39:14Z")

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[rote](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rote?s=t) learning

Damn, ninja’d.

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/92 "2013-10-29T03:39:39Z")

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> [@shijinn](#):
>
> when you learn something by forceful repetition, it is called learning by rote.

And there is one of my weaknesses, I’m crap with spelling and grammar.

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**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/93 "2013-10-29T03:49:13Z")

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> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> The easiest most non convoluted way of remembering which number goes on which side of the \< symbol is that the smaller number goes on the smaller side and the larger number goes on the larger side. That way the explanation is contained wholly in the symbol itself and doesn’t require any additional ideas. you also have the benefit of a single explanation covering three symbols, \<, =, and \>.

Gotta agree.  
Big side, big number.  
Small side, small number.

The only real confusion arises when you are comparing quantities of different signs. The statement,  
-400\<2  
can be a little counterintuitive. But this is related more to concepts of signed numbers than anything to do with the conventions of the \<\> symbols.

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**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/94 "2013-10-29T03:49:19Z")

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> [@jsgoddess](#):
>
> I didn’t say they would. I said it doesn’t actually hurt anything to find a mnemonic for those people who do not find remembering which symbol is which easy. Arguing that we shouldn’t have this problem doesn’t actually address the problem.

And I am arguing, quite explicitly, that it _does_ hurt to try to use a mnemonic for something like this. It is not only unnecessary, it is positively confusing. If people find this symbol’s meaning hard to remember it is because they have attempted to remember it via over-elaborate, ambiguous mnemonics and/or inappropriate, misleading metaphors about “pointing”. Your sort of redundant “solution” to the problem is actually the _cause_ of the problem (for those people who actually do have a problem).

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**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/95 "2013-10-29T04:49:27Z")

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When I learned these signs in grade school, I immediately got the fact that the larger number is always where the lines are a greater distance apart. But at the very beginning, for a short while I got confused as how to read them (at least to myself). I’d read “8\>2” as “8 is greater than 2”, but I’d also read “2\<8” that exact same way! They mean the same thing, of course. And I soon got the words straight.

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**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/96 "2013-10-29T05:41:39Z")

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> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> And there is one of my weaknesses, I’m crap with spelling and grammar.

Of course. Because you tried to learn them by rote.

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/97 "2013-10-29T06:50:41Z")

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> [@panache45](#):
>
> Of course. Because you tried to learn them by rote.

Most likely :D!

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**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/98 "2013-10-29T10:27:25Z")

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> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> So explain then why it’s confusing to some people. Because they’re all idiots? I don’t think so. Because it isn’t completely obvious to everyone. It happens to coincide with your interpretation of the symbol, but there isn’t one way of looking at it and interpreting it.

This is a simple enough concept that you shouldn’t need more than one way to look at it. You don’t need Pac Man, alligators, King Kong or crooked letter L’s.

One side of the symbol is big, that’s where the big number goes. That’s it. That’s the whole enchilada. Big side, big number. A 4 year old can grasp that.

In fact, this morning I’m going to try to teach my son these symbols, he’s in kindergarten, I will post back with the results.

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**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/99 "2013-10-29T12:19:50Z")

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> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> And you and I agree on the most important point: it is _not_ self-evident what means what. Once you know the definition, you can say it’s self-evident, but it can just as easily and logically (IMHO) be the other way around.

Really? Which end of this [volume slider](http://www.ahmadhania.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Volume_Slider_full_preview.jpg) should logically produce the biggest sound?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-easy-way-to-remember-what-and-mean-in-maths/672360/100 "2013-10-29T12:56:37Z")

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I come to report some success with the concept of \< and \> with a kindergartener who was eating breakfast and interested in doing something else on the iPad.

Drew the following on a piece of paper

> [@](#):
>
> 3 = 3  
> 3 \> 2  
> 3 \< 4

He remembered the equals sign, and thought the others were arrows, which makes sense. I told him the big number goes where the lines are far apart, the little number where the lines are close together. So he drew his own

> [@](#):
>
> 5 \> 6

When I asked him what he was trying to say with it, he realized the numbers were backwards and fixed it. I consider self correction after a 2 minute lesson in a completely new topic a measure of success.

Then my wife came in, saw what we were doing, and said

> [@](#):
>
> The big side is like a mouth and it gobbles up the big number NOM NOM NOM

totally ruining the whole experiment.

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