# Is there an evolutionary reason for masturbation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420 "2008-09-27T00:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/21 "2008-09-27T15:16:50Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > Ah but societal effects are pretty crucial in human reproduction, considering the time and effort that goes into raising children. Traumatised, even suicidal women may not make the best mothers ya know. To say nothing that rape is enough to put some women off sex altogether. But that hasn’t been true in the long term. Given that masturbation is common in other species, I’d guess that masturbation predates society. Maybe we should show a little respect for our elders. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/22 "2008-09-27T17:42:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > From what I understand, in pre-law, “rule of the jungle” societies not only is it significant, it’s the norm. And most women’s relationships typically consist of being taken by one rapist after another, each killed by the previous one. Oh, no doubt nice guys exist - but in a culture like that, all rewards, women or otherwise always go to the most brutal. IIRC, the death by violence rate for adults in such cultures is something like 90%. If masturbation wasn’t an option, I’d expect it to be even worse. This is largely nonsense. If we have evidence of any such society, it is certainly not the norm. Please provide some cites to support the allegation that this is common. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/23 "2008-09-27T17:49:09Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I would too, I was just surprised that it was on wikipedia. It seems pretty speculative, yet the papers cited appear to be reputable scientific studies. Just because something appeared in a reputable scientific journal doesn’t mean it’s necessarily plausible. 😉 It may be possible to find a positive effect of many behaviors. This doesn’t mean that this is the selective reason for the evolution of the behavior in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/24 "2008-09-27T18:25:10Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Rather, when the families mutually make the match, the welfare of the potential bride and groom is considered more than the value of a cow. wow! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/25 "2008-09-27T18:44:01Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It may be possible to find a positive effect of many behaviors. This doesn’t mean that this is the selective reason for the evolution of the behavior in the first place. Or that there _is_ a selective reason for the behavior at all. It may be something as simple as “opposable thumbs + higher intelligence = wanking”. Higher intelligence and opposable thumbs clearly confer benefits aside from masturbation (though arguably none quite so awesome 😃 ), and the fact that they allow not (necessarily) beneficial behavior may mean nothing at all. Like the tailbone, erectori pili or the appendix- you’ve evolved to have them (or have less of them), but it doesn’t mean they’re useful. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/26 "2008-09-27T18:51:29Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > not to sound particularly feminist, but to really blunt, arranged marriage where the woman is traded off like a cow is rape. It doesn’t matter that the man may be as gentle as he can, and try to woo her the wedding night, she has no choice in putting out. And if the woman in question is actually lesbian in tendency, it really is rape no matter what because she is simply not attracted to the man at all. It ws the societal norm for most of human history, and is still societal norm in a number of cultures. We wont even get into the whole female genital mutilation thing. [QUOTE=Balthisar] India is the most populous country where arranged marriages take place, and is probably the country most likely to come to mind when mentioning arranged marriages. It would be wrong to think that women are “traded off like a cow,” and in fact, the woman always has the right to refuse. Rather, when the families mutually make the match, the welfare of the potential bride and groom is considered more than the value of a cow. [/QUOTE] [Moderating] Let’s not sidetrack this thread into a discussion of whether or not an arranged marriage constitutes rape. If you want to debate this, it would be better to open a thread in GD than to hijack this one. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/27 "2008-09-27T19:48:28Z")
The Wiki article states that “animal masturbation has been observered in many species, both in the wild and in captivity.” So I would go with the relief valve theory. And I also wanted to point out that the wiki link is really NOT SAFE FOR WORK, just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/28 "2008-09-27T20:31:53Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > The Wiki article states that “animal masturbation has been observered in many species, both in the wild and in captivity.” So I would go with the relief valve theory. I wouldn’t. I’d go with “it feels good, and because we can.” Not every trait, whether behavioral, anatomical, physiological, or whatever else is necessarily adaptive. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/29 "2008-09-27T21:13:43Z")
Never said it did, I was just agreeing with this, although I would insert _not just humans_ > [@Colibri](#): > > It’s evidently useful for humans (or at least it was historically) to have their level of sexual desire and readiness “set” fairly high. This means that many people don’t get as much sex as they want. Masturbation is just something that humans do to relieve this urge. It’s no more adaptive than, say, chewing on a stick to alleviate hunger pains. It just so happens that because of our dexterous hands, we are better at it than most animals. I would be interested in a study of species reproductive patterns, relative polygamy, freguency of matings per conception, and their tendency to masturbate ---
**Author:** ![Diaspora](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/diaspora/32/5595_2.png) [@Diaspora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diaspora)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/30 "2008-09-28T07:29:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Just because something appeared in a reputable scientific journal doesn’t mean it’s necessarily plausible. 😉 A scientific article, published in a peer-reviewed journal? I’m not saying that it means the article is ironclad law, but one can certainly assume the arguments put forth in the article are at least\* plausible\*. I mean, c’mon. We’re not talking National Enquirer, here. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420/31 "2008-09-28T08:05:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > This is largely nonsense. If we have evidence of any such society, it is certainly not the norm. Please provide some cites to support the allegation that this is common. Jared Diamond, Ch 14 in _Guns, Germs and Steel_ has an interesting passage. > [@Jared Diamond in Guns](#): > > Anthropologists formerly idealized band and tribal societies as gentle and nonviolent… Much more extensive information about band and tribal societies reveals that murder is a leading cause of death. For example, I happened to be visiting New Guinea’s Iyau people at a time when a woman anthropologist was interviewing Iyau women about their life histories. Woman after woman, when asked to name her husband, named several sequential husbands who had died violent deaths. A typical answer went like this: “My first husband was killed by Elopi raiders. My second husband was killed by a man who wanted me, and who became my third husband. That husband was killed by the brother of my second husband, seeking to avenge his murder.” This description of murder and mayhem doesn’t quite match up with a story of sequential rape, though it seems that marrying one’s husband’s murderer wasn’t exactly unusual, indicating some degree of coercion. Nor am I saying that 90% of all male deaths in such societies are due to murder. That seems improbable. Still, murder is sufficiently common to prompt many to attach themselves to any tribal strongman who promises order. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-an-evolutionary-reason-for-masturbation/465420.md?page=1)