# Is there another Declaration of Independance out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 9, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731 "2007-11-09T00:07:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jake\_of\_All\_Trades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eada6e/32.png) [@Jake\_of\_All\_Trades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_of_All_Trades)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/1 "2007-11-09T00:07:51Z")
Why do we (America) still posses the Declaration? Wouldn’t it have been sent to the king, or was it really intended for domestic display all along? If the latter is true, is there some other document which \*was \*sent? I’ve been wondering about this for years, but one can imagine that the few people I ventured to pose such a question to thought it a joke and avoided answering :dubious: Thank you for your time! –Jake ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/2 "2007-11-09T00:27:30Z")
You might want to read the history of the Declaration on the [National Archives](http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration_history.html) web site. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/3 "2007-11-09T00:46:25Z")
Hi **Jake** , there were multiple copies of the Declaration of Independance made at the time. Between 150 and 200 copies in fact. Only a copy went to King George III. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/4 "2007-11-09T01:33:46Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Hi **Jake** , there were multiple copies of the Declaration of Independance made at the time. Between 150 and 200 copies in fact. Only a copy went to King George III. Jim [/QUOTE] Does Britain still have their copy? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/5 "2007-11-09T01:45:36Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Does Britain still have their copy? [/QUOTE] Interesting question, I never even thought about it. They were exceptionally good record keepers. I would hope they might actually have it. Jim ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/6 "2007-11-09T02:12:01Z")
> [@](#): > > After its adoption by Congress on July 4, a handwritten draft signed by the President of Congress John Hancock and the Secretary Charles Thomson was then sent a few blocks away to the printing shop of John Dunlap. Through the night between 150 and 200 copies were made, now known as “Dunlap broadsides”. One was sent to George Washington on July 6, who had it read to his troops in New York on July 9. A copy reached London on August 10.[citation needed] The 25 Dunlap broadsides still known to exist are the oldest surviving copies of the document. The original handwritten copy has not survived. > > On July 19, Congress ordered a copy be “engrossed” (hand written in fair script on parchment by an expert penman) for the delegates to sign. This engrossed copy was produced by Timothy Matlack, assistant to the secretary of Congress. Most of the delegates signed it on August 2, 1776, in geographic order of their colonies from north to south, though some delegates were not present and had to sign later. Late signers were Elbridge Gerry, Oliver Wolcott, Lewis Morris, Thomas McKean, and Matthew Thornton (who, because of a lack of space, was unable to place his signature on the top right of the signing area with the other New Hampshire delegates, William Whipple and Josiah Bartlett, and had to place his signature on the lower right). Two delegates never signed. The first was Robert R. Livingston of New York, a member of the original drafting committee. Livingston was present for the vote on July 2 but returned to New York before the August 2 signing. The second was John Dickinson, a member of the Continental Congress from Pennsylvania, who was against separation from Great Britain and labored to change the language of the Declaration of Independence to leave open the possibility of a reconciliation with Great Britain. As new delegates joined the congress, they were also allowed to sign. A total of 56 delegates eventually signed (see Category:Signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence). This engrossed copy is now on display at the National Archives. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence) The rest of the page is worth reading ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/7 "2007-11-09T02:14:53Z")
There are two current British copies known, according to this [link](http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/dube/inde14.htm), among the 25 apparent surviving copies. There is also a list of locations of known copies [here](http://www.thedeclarationofindependence.org/): although the list don’t exactly match (some copies my have been sold), both agree that two copies are in London. Of note, the copies sent to England were the printed copies, signed by only John Hancock and Charles Thomson; the parchment copy signed by all of the Representatives was a more “ceremonial” copy done a month later. _ETA: also see post above_. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/8 "2007-11-09T02:28:53Z")
I almost forgot my favorite story about the DOA (verified by snopes). [NYT article](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE5D9143FF930A35757C0A967958260) > [@](#): > > A collector who spent $4 at a Pennsylvania flea market two years ago for a dismal painting because he liked the frame now finds himself the possessor of a first printing of the Declaration of Independence. It is expected to bring $800,000 to $1 million at an auction on June 4. The final sales price was actually $2.42 million which is not bad for a $4 flea market purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/9 "2007-11-09T04:47:05Z")
[QUOTE=psychobunny] I almost forgot my favorite story about the DOA (verified by snopes). [/QUOTE] Uh..DOA? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/10 "2007-11-09T14:44:02Z")
He’s dead, Jim. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/11 "2007-11-09T15:19:04Z")
Apparently the UK also has a signed copy of the "[Olive Branch Petition](http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/museum/item.asp?item_id=28&sequence=1) "written a year earlier. We like that one - it doesn’t call poor old George a tyrant 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/12 "2007-11-09T16:05:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Apparently the UK also has a signed copy of the "Olive Branch Petition "written a year earlier. We like that one - it doesn’t call poor old George a tyrant THAT is an amazing bit of history, and one that I had never heard of before. It’s certainly never taught in schools. But I’ve never encountered it in any of my reading since, nd that’s surprising. It certainly doesn’t seem to fit in with the usual “script” of the Revolution, and the language of the petition – written _after_ Concord and Lexington – seems awfully obsequious: [http://ahp.gatech.edu/olive\_branch\_1775.html](http://ahp.gatech.edu/olive_branch_1775.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_of\_All\_Trades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eada6e/32.png) [@Jake\_of\_All\_Trades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_of_All_Trades)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-another-declaration-of-independance-out-there/425731/13 "2007-11-10T23:54:48Z")
Thanks for the quick and helpful answers, everybody!