# Is there any argument that stops Obama birthers in their tracks? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878 "2011-09-11T00:01:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878/21 "2011-09-11T19:27:12Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > > > No, because birtherism is racism. > > > > Birthers so fervently want to believe Obama is not an American citizen because they so fervently want to believe there’s no way a black man can legitimately become president of the United States. A black president changes what America is to them; makes it worse, and wrong, and broken, and that simply cannot be, so Obama simply cannot be president, not really. > > My hazy memories of the stupidity displayed by the Republicans during the Clinton administration leads me to believe this is all based around the fact that Obama’s not a Republican. Birtherism isn’t racist, it’s just an attempt to paint Obama as ineligible for the presidency. If Hillary Clinton had won, the same people would arrive at exactly the same conclusion, that she’s not eligible for the presidency. Just via a different route. Dunno whether my memory of the Clinton years is more or less hazy than **The Tooth** ’s, but I had the same impression: that the Republicans’ opposition to Clinton was less about his policies than the fact that they had been deprived of something they considered to be rightfully theirs. And sometimes it had all the class of a spoiled four-year-old who’d lost his lollipop. Of course, with some of them Obama being non-white adds fuel to the fire; but the basic motivation remains the same. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878/22 "2011-09-11T21:57:51Z")
I always want to say, “I know. And there’s not a damned thing you can do about it. Neener neener neener.” ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878/23 "2011-09-11T22:10:57Z")
**Roderick Femm** - ha. The edit window closed before I could correct that. Maybe my brain was thinking “Obama” but my fingers assumed “Barack”? I would love to think that **Onomatopoeia** ’s explanation fit the bill for every birther/Nobama person out there, but I keep think that’s too pat an answer. And in my experience and reading, most birthers are pretty quick to deny the racism angle (as the guy in my OP did) and how do you prove racism? He was a Generous Motors shop rat in SE Michigan for over 30 years; he worked with and hung out with black GM shop rats. That’s a thought police accusation, barring membership in the KKK, public records of lynchings and such. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878/24 "2011-09-11T22:38:05Z")
I think that the starting point for birtherism is the fact that the President’s father was a foreign national. All it takes is a starting point like that for such people to search out a plausible-to-them narrative about a Democratic president being illegitimate. Since it takes little in the way of evidence to get them started, I don’t see why it would be different if Barack Obama, Sr. had been a white Kenyan. Also, I object to the birthers-are-racist charge on grounds that one should avoiding incivility when one can do so honestly. I’ve been fairly harsh against birthers in this post, but not so severely as if I had called than racists. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878/25 "2011-09-11T22:47:46Z")
I _may_ have derailed a conspiracy theorist. Maybe. One of my IRL friends, whose friendship I value more than politics or even opposing nuttery - believes in various conspiracy theories such as ancient astronauts. He posted a “9/11 was an inside job” link on FB today. Another friend and I ribbed him over it. One of the things I said was to ask him to consider recent publicly known conspiracies: The Plame leak, the Lewinsky scandal, Iran-Contra, Watergate, corrupt officials in various administrations, etc. There may not have been enough evidence to convict people in a court of law, but who did what to whom when is in the public record, often in great detail. People can’t be trusted to keep quiet. The only way to avoid betrayal is to have no people. Problem is you always need people, as bin Laden learned the hard way. My CT friend said that was interesting. I don’t know if he was being polite and dismissive, or if I really brought a ray of light in, but feel free to try it. BTW, the OP’s birther friend may not be conscious of what racism he has left. He has learned to be - or just as likely has always been - fine with co-workers of different races. He might has a sub-conscious discomfort with a POTUS who looks different than all the other POTUSes. Or not - he could really just not understand how BHO got elected, or disagree with BHO so much he can’t STAND it. Og knows I’ve felt that way about POTUSes in my lifetime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-argument-that-stops-obama-birthers-in-their-tracks/595878.md?page=1)