# Is there any Biblical basis to this belief? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856 "2013-09-28T05:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/21 "2013-09-29T00:21:37Z")
I personally do believe in the concept of soul sleep. Revelation 20:31 “and the sea gave up the dead that were in it”. is another interesting verse. I don’t have a problem with the “today you will be with me in paradise” line. Better than saying “In 2593 years you will be with me in paradise, and you’ll be asleep until then so it won’t seem like more than a day”. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/22 "2013-09-29T05:53:11Z")
AFAIK no-one knows, or has ever known, what goes on after death , except for the one called Christ Jesus … and even he didn’t say much about it. The point seems to be: not what happens after we die, but what we do with what we have when we ARE HERE… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/23 "2013-09-29T11:10:03Z")
Other place that come to mind: [QUOTE=Rev 12] 1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the **moment** he was born. … 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (this however may be taken as that place was on earth) 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. [/QUOTE] The word moment indicated time passage and waiting ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/24 "2013-09-29T15:37:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Catholic teaching is that Heaven, and thus all the saints, are beyond time, and thus heavenly beings can interact with the world at any point of time they choose, regardless of their span as mortals. Thus, for instance, it can make sense to join with St. Monica in praying for the conversion of her son, even though that prayer has already been granted (St. Monica’s son was St. Augustine). This. What I was taught in Catholic high school was that time, as we understand it, is just an artifact of the physical universe, like up or down or left or right, and has no meaning outside of the physical universe. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/25 "2013-09-30T07:53:34Z")
C K Dexter Haven: > [@](#): > > The Old Testament bible says nothing whatsoever about an after-life. That’s not entirely true. There’s at least one instance in the Old Testament where a spirit is summoned to Earth from the afterlife - Samuel, in I Samuel 28, by the witch of Endor at King Saul’s behest. It doesn’t give any details, but it at least indicates that the Judaic belief at the time of the author included a belief in individual continued existence after death. As to the OP’s question, there’s no basis in scripture to indicate that time passes in the afterlife exactly as it does on Earth, but if one’s soul’s time on Earth is not spent in the afterlife, then there must ipso facto be some concept of the passage of time there, because there is a period during which one’s soul is not there. How those in the afterlife experience the absence of our souls while we are still on Earth is not something we have any way of definitively understanding (except perhaps by using our jargon of time-passage to approximate it), but it must happen somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/26 "2013-09-30T08:15:43Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > As to the OP’s question, there’s no basis in scripture to indicate that time passes in the afterlife exactly as it does on Earth, but if one’s soul’s time on Earth is not spent in the afterlife, then there must ipso facto be some concept of the passage of time there, because there is a period during which one’s soul is not there. How those in the afterlife experience the absence of our souls while we are still on Earth is not something we have any way of definitively understanding (except perhaps by using our jargon of time-passage to approximate it), but it must happen somehow. I agree there’s probably a passage of time in the afterlife. I’m just not seeing the necessity of saying it’s the same time that’s passing in the afterlife as is passing on Earth. Most people who believe in an afterlife believe it’s outside of our universe. So I don’t see why we should feel that there is a correspondence between what time it is here and what time it is there. Just because it’s September 30, 2013 on Earth doesn’t mean it’s the same date in Heaven - so a person who dies on that date doesn’t arrive in Heaven and find it’s the same date there. I think it’s just as plausible that everyone who dies and arrives in Heaven will find it’s Day One of the afterlife regardless of what day they died on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/27 "2013-09-30T12:14:01Z")
Well, there is the passage that says that 100 years on earth are but a day in heaven. (I’m not going to look up the passage or the exact wording right now. I’m at work.) I’ve always taken this the way the OP does: heaven is “timeless” in a way that we mortals can’t really understand. I suppose I imagine that people in heaven can perceive all of time at once, or view whichever part of time they want to. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/28 "2013-09-30T13:26:03Z")
Diceman: > [@](#): > > Well, there is the passage that says that 100 years on earth are but a day in heaven. Psalms 90:4 - “A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/29 "2013-09-30T13:46:31Z")
There is also the passage in John 8:57-58 - > [@](#): > > The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” The “I Am” part is part of the name Yahweh. Jesus is claiming to be God, and therefore outside of time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/30 "2013-09-30T15:31:25Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > That’s not entirely true. There’s at least one instance in the Old Testament where a spirit is summoned to Earth from the afterlife - Samuel, in I Samuel 28, by the witch of Endor at King Saul’s behest. It doesn’t give any details, but it at least indicates that the Judaic belief at the time of the author included a belief in individual continued existence after death. Not trying to sound like a quibbling Bible defender, but that verse says “At that Saul knew it was Samuel…” - doesn’t mean it actually was, but Saul \*believed \*it was. The bible has examples of demons and angels impersonating people for their own gain, or just to make mischief and mayhem. Considering that this is the only example in the entirety of the Old Testament that purports to have a dead guy speaking, and lots of references to the lifelessness of the dead, I’m inclined to believe that we’ve either got a mega-embellishment here, or a demon impersonating Samuel to fool Saul. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/31 "2013-09-30T15:57:33Z")
Although, doesn’t the apparition (whatever it is) give good advice to Saul? Why would a demon impersonate Samuel, only to say the same thing that the real Samuel would have? ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/32 "2013-09-30T16:03:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Although, doesn’t the apparition (whatever it is) give good advice to Saul? Why would a demon impersonate Samuel, only to say the same thing that the real Samuel would have? Because the demon wanted to feel important? Because he wanted to play along with Saul, so as to more completely fulfill his death sentence? (communicating with the dead is against God’s laws, and warrants death) Who knows. Just cus he’s a demon, doesn’t mean everything he says is wrong. It just means he’s got questionable motives, being a demon and all. Like I said - either a mega embellishment, or the demon playing games. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/33 "2013-09-30T16:04:27Z")
from Wikipedia: Judaism In the Septuagint (2nd century BCE) the woman is described as a “ventriloquist”, possibly reflecting the consistent view of the Alexandrian translators concerning “demons… which exist not”. However Josephus (1st century) appears to find the story completely credible (Antiquities of the Jews 6,14). Witch of Endor by Nikolai Ge, 1857.The Yalkut Shimoni (11th century) identifies the anonymous witch as the mother of Abner. Based upon the witch’s claim to have seen something, and Saul having heard a disembodied voice, the Yalkut suggests that necromancers are able to see the spirits of the dead but are unable to hear their speech, while the person for whom the deceased was summoned hears the voice but fails to see anything. Christianity The Church Fathers and some modern Christian writers have debated the theological issues raised by this text. The story of King Saul and the Medium of Endor would appear at first sight to affirm that it is possible for humans to summon the spirits of the dead by magic. Medieval glosses to the Bible suggested that what the witch actually summoned was not the ghost of Samuel, but a demon taking his shape or an illusion crafted by the witch. Martin Luther, who believed that the dead were unconscious, read that it was “the Devil’s ghost”, whereas John Calvin, who did believe in the immortal soul, read that “it was not the real Samuel, but a spectre.” The modern Christian author Hank Hanegraaff argues that although it is impossible for humans to summon the dead, Samuel did, in fact, by a sovereign act of God, appear before Saul and the witch. Hanegraaff interprets the passage to mean that the witch was surprised by these events. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/34 "2013-09-30T16:15:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Catholic teaching is that Heaven, and thus all the saints, are beyond time, and thus heavenly beings can interact with the world at any point of time they choose, regardless of their span as mortals. . . . . So, theoretically, it would be possible to ask a Saint who hadn’t been born yet for intercession. Although that would be hampered by the requester not knowing about the future event. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/35 "2013-09-30T17:18:41Z")
> [@](#): > > So, theoretically, it would be possible to ask a Saint who hadn’t been born yet for intercession. And in principle, Catholics sometimes do just that. The full Litany of the Saint lists off a bunch of important or relevant saints specifically, but always ends with something to the effect of “All you holy saints of God, pray for us”. Which covers those canonized saints who weren’t mentioned for the sake of time, and those who have already died and gone to Heaven but who have not been officially canonized, and those who have not yet died, or even not yet been born, as mortals. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/36 "2013-09-30T22:53:40Z")
> [@MannyL](#): > > If Santa can circle the earth giving presents to all who believe in him in one night then I assume 3 days is enough time to rescue all the souls that needed rescuing. Not really a fair comparison, since one of those stories is fiction… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/37 "2013-09-30T23:50:58Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > I would assume the notion of praying to a saint to intercede on your behalf would suggest contemporaneous action. Similarly the communion of saints. Both of these being a very Roman Catholic viewpoint, and not shared with the rest. Come on, let’s not forget the Eastern Orthodox. Common creeds from their joint history, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856/38 "2013-10-01T00:14:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And in principle, Catholics sometimes do just that. The full Litany of the Saint lists off a bunch of important or relevant saints specifically, but always ends with something to the effect of “All you holy saints of God, pray for us”. Which covers those canonized saints who weren’t mentioned for the sake of time, and those who have already died and gone to Heaven but who have not been officially canonized, and those who have not yet died, or even not yet been born, as mortals. Sweet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-biblical-basis-to-this-belief/669856.md?page=1)