# Is there any chance that Sandusky is found not guilty? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190 "2012-06-15T01:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/21 "2012-06-15T04:24:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In-joke and reference to **Starving Artist** ’s creative attempts at defending Sanduski [in the Pit, back when the story broke out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630580). > And by creative I of course mean insane. > > ETA: Here’s the first mention of the [Cardboard Tube Defence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14724158&postcount=2430), since it was a huge thread. That’s parody, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/22 "2012-06-15T04:30:21Z")
You wish. Scratch that, we \*all \*wish. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/23 "2012-06-15T04:30:42Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That’s parody, correct? Funny, sometimes I ask that about _your_ posts. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/24 "2012-06-15T04:59:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Ibn Warraq** , the scary part is that that’s not even the worst part of his um, “agument”. In that case, I’ll definitely skip reading the linked thread. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/25 "2012-06-15T06:15:00Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That’s parody, correct? We’re still not quite sure. Considering the lengths he went to to defend Paterno and Sandusky, somehow, I fear it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/26 "2012-06-15T13:10:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In-joke and reference to **Starving Artist** ’s creative attempts at defending Sanduski [in the Pit, back when the story broke out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630580). > And by creative I of course mean insane. > > ETA: Here’s the first mention of the [Cardboard Tube Defence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14724158&postcount=2430), since it was a huge thread. Oh how I wish I could go back to the time when I didn’t know what this meant. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/27 "2012-06-15T13:47:30Z")
Before the trial started, I would have said there’s a chance. Now, especially after the janitor’s testimony combined with McQueary (no way they both misunderstood what they saw), I’m pretty certain Sandusky is done for. He might actually be mentally deranged because he seems pretty carefree in photos outside the courthouse. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/28 "2012-06-15T13:53:58Z")
I see no debate here. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/29 "2012-06-15T14:58:34Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > It won’t work, but since I’m sure that there are no deals on the table, what better strategy would they have? Sandusky almost has to take the stand. Putting Sandusky on the stand is almost the best proof of an incompetent defense you could come up with. Unless Sandusky insists on testifying over the wishes of his counsel. He gets on the stand, the prosecution is going to tear him a new… The prosecution would have a field day. No way does Sandusky improve his case by talking. I am guessing this ends with him hanging himself in his cell the moment they stop watching him 24/7. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/30 "2012-06-15T15:00:19Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > He might actually be mentally deranged because he seems pretty carefree in photos outside the courthouse. I wonder if they’re trying to play up this Histrionic Personality Disorder thing. Sadly, even I as a layman can see that A) he doesn’t meet the diagnostic criteria in the DSM for it, and B) none of its symptoms include the inability to tell that it’s wrong to fuck kids. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/31 "2012-06-15T18:46:10Z")
> [@howye](#): > > Putting Sandusky on the stand is almost the best proof of an incompetent defense you could come up with. Unless Sandusky insists on testifying over the wishes of his counsel. > > He gets on the stand, the prosecution is going to tear him a new… > > The prosecution would have a field day. No way does Sandusky improve his case by talking. I am guessing this ends with him hanging himself in his cell the moment they stop watching him 24/7. The fact that Sandusky’s lawyer allowed, or was forced by his client to allow, the Costas interview, where Sandusky did everything but wave a sign saying “I Rape Kids” tells you all you need to know about either Sandusky’s lawyer or Sandusky’s ability to understand how he presents himself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/32 "2012-06-15T18:55:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In-joke and reference to **Starving Artist** ’s creative attempts at defending Sanduski [in the Pit, back when the story broke out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=630580). > And by creative I of course mean insane. > > ETA: Here’s the first mention of the [Cardboard Tube Defence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14724158&postcount=2430), since it was a huge thread. That argument, if accepted, would make it physically impossible for **any** adult man to bugger a boy, and I doubt even **Starving Artist** believes that. It’s like saying, “Rape is impossible because a woman with her skirt up can run faster than a man with his pants down.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/33 "2012-06-15T19:01:48Z")
In the interest of not making everybody puke, let’s move on. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/34 "2012-06-15T19:09:21Z")
Am I the only one surprised by how fast this is going? Usually when a celebrity is tried for a major crime the trial and preparation for it take a long time, often years. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/35 "2012-06-15T19:32:44Z")
I think the defense hasn’t strung things out as long as they could’ve, and they may have even pushed to get it over with faster. I don’t know the reason for that unless they’ve accepted he’s guilty and he’s going to rot in jail for the rest of his life no matter what anyone says. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I wonder if they’re trying to play up this Histrionic Personality Disorder thing. Sadly, even I as a layman can see that A) he doesn’t meet the diagnostic criteria in the DSM for it, and B) none of its symptoms include the inability to tell that it’s wrong to fuck kids. B), at least, does not matter. They’re not arguing that he did it and he’s not guilty because he has a personality disorder. They’re arguing that he didn’t do it and (I presume) the personality disorder could explain some of his other bizarre behavior. Not the kids-fucking part, but the love letters and gifts and hugs and showering and dire threats. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/36 "2012-06-15T21:35:19Z")
> [@howye](#): > > Putting Sandusky on the stand is almost the best proof of an incompetent defense you could come up with. Unless Sandusky insists on testifying over the wishes of his counsel. > > He gets on the stand, the prosecution is going to tear him a new… > > The prosecution would have a field day. No way does Sandusky improve his case by talking. I am guessing this ends with him hanging himself in his cell the moment they stop watching him 24/7. I guess it’s like pulling your goalie at the end of a hockey game when you are trailing. It’s extremely risky and likely to hurt you more, but if you are losing anyways, what can it hurt? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/37 "2012-06-15T21:40:04Z")
Right. Nothing is going to help this guy as long as the witnesses were credible, but if he’d plead guilty right away he’d have spent the rest of his life in jail, and if he’s found guilty at trial he’ll spend the rest of his life in jail, so hope springs eternal and we have to go through this nonsense. If he were a younger man who had a reasonable chance of still being alive after a lengthy jail sentence, maybe he would have copped a plea. I don’t know what kind of sentence he might’ve received had he plead guilty to some of these counts. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/38 "2012-06-15T21:57:23Z")
The only reason this case has gone to trial in the first place is that any plea bargain by Sandusky would result in him spending the rest of his life in jail. So what has he got to lose by going to trial and hoping lightning strikes? Sandusky doesn’t have incompetant counsel just because the case against him is open and shut. It’s just that we hardly ever see high profile open-and-shut trials, because those cases almost always result in a plea bargain. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/39 "2012-06-15T22:03:38Z")
How might it affect any civil lawsuits [either against Sandusky himself, or against Penn State] if Sandusky fights the charges all the way to the cell block? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/40 "2012-06-15T22:08:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > How might it affect any civil lawsuits [either against Sandusky himself, or against Penn State] if Sandusky fights the charges all the way to the cell block? Other than the fact that he’ll spend more and more of his money on lawyers, I don’t know if it matters. And Penn State might be in a lot of trouble. Just a few days ago it came out that one of the administrators who was fired (and will soon be on trial himself) had a whole stash of files on his computer about Sandusky’s problems and still didn’t do anything about it. It makes the administration and the school look much worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190.md?page=3)