# Is there any chance that Sandusky is found not guilty? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190 "2012-06-15T01:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/81 "2012-06-18T19:06:20Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > Maybe if the defense can produce at least a few boys who had close relationships with Sandusky who say they _weren’t_ abused, then he might have a small chance. I don’t see how that’s actually any better. It’s kind of like asking whether it’s worse to be killed by a fetishistic serial killer or in a massive Columbine type kill-spree. Either he targets any/all boys with whom he’s gotten close. Or he targets certain boys over others for what will almost certainly be sick, perverse reasons. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/82 "2012-06-18T20:09:19Z")
Wow, can this guy’s defense any more inept? Their witnesses are saying it was routine for not only Sandusky, but for they themselves to shower with kids. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/jerry-sandusky-trial-old-friends-say-showers-with-boys-routine-harmless/2012/06/18/gJQA9P1blV\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/jerry-sandusky-trial-old-friends-say-showers-with-boys-routine-harmless/2012/06/18/gJQA9P1blV_story.html) > [@](#): > > Richard Anderson, a college teammate and Penn State coaching colleague of Sandusky’s, was the first to testify, and vouched for the defendant’s “wonderful” reputation. When asked by prosecutor Joseph McGettigan III if he’d seen Sandusky showering with boys, Anderson answered, “Yes. I have also.” > > McGettigan seemed surprised by the response and asked Anderson a flurry of follow-ups. > > “Eleven-year-olds?” McGettigan said. > > Yes, Anderson said. > > “That you didn’t know?’ > > “Yes.” > > He said, “I do it all the time,” and added, “There are regularly young boys at the YMCA showering at the same time that there are older people showering.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/83 "2012-06-18T20:47:14Z")
Here is information from the [Costas interview](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/18/prosecutors-request-transcripts-from-sandusky-interview-disturbing-unaired/) that was cut from the original airing: Costas then challenged Joe Paterno’s one-time defensive coordinator, saying: "But isn’t what you’re just describing the classic MO of many pedophiles? And that is that they gain the trust of young people, they don’t necessarily abuse every young person. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of young boys you came into contact with, but there are allegations that at least eight of them were victimized. Many people believe there are more to come.” “So it’s entirely possible that you could’ve helped young boy A in some way that was not objectionable while horribly taking advantage of young boy B, C, D and E. Isn’t that possible?” Costas asked Sandusky during the interview. Sandusky gave an unusual reply. "Well – you might think that. I don’t know. In terms of – my relationship with so many, many young people. I would – I would guess that there are many young people who would come forward. Many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and – and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life.” “And I didn’t go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I’ve helped. There are many that I didn’t have – I hardly had any contact with who I have helped in many, many ways," he added. Read more: [Prosecutors want damning Sandusky interview footage NBC didn't air | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/18/prosecutors-request-transcripts-from-sandusky-interview-disturbing-unaired/#ixzz1yBCyIfKf) ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/84 "2012-06-18T20:55:50Z")
There’s also this from Penn State assistant coach Booker Brooks: > [@](#): > > “Throughout my life as a football coach, I’ve showered with younger men than myself — throughout my life and even currently right now, since I am a grandfather I take my grandchild to the local YMCA. Since she’s not old enough to go into a room by herself, we go in and we shower together.” [http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2012/06/18/12280832-jerry-sandusky-begins-defense-coaches-testify-showers-with-young-boys-common#comments](http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/18/12280832-jerry-sandusky-begins-defense-coaches-testify-showers-with-young-boys-common#comments) ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/85 "2012-06-18T21:12:59Z")
I’m not sure what to make of this. In fact, the coaches are right. Men and boys do shower together although, “at the same time” sounds much better. Things might have changed since the 70’s when I grew up but my dad would take me to the gym and afterwards, we took showers. There were always men there that I didn’t know. What are they supposed to do, wait until the boys are done? Obviously this is different from molestation and rape but just the act of showering at the same time isn’t necessarily offensive. At least, it wasn’t when I was growing up. Times might have changed. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/86 "2012-06-18T21:18:23Z")
I think the issue here is that he was alone with the kid, as opposed to being part of a crowd using the shower. But the real point is not whether it is or is not offensive. It’s whether this shows that he is a pedophile. You can do things that are offensive and unwise without being a pedophile, and if Sandusky’s lawyers can convince the jury that non-pedophiles in Sandusky’s circles commonly did this, then they can possibly convince them that the showers themselves were not evidence of anything else. The naked bearhug issue remains a problem, of course. But the bigger problem for Sandusky is the fact that six victims are testifying against him, plus a couple of other witnesses. So I don’t know if the shower issue is that big in the scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/87 "2012-06-18T21:20:40Z")
There’s a difference between people showering at the same time and a man taking a shower with a boy he isn’t related to. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/88 "2012-06-18T21:22:05Z")
Do you mean anything different than my first sentence? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/89 "2012-06-18T21:24:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Do you mean anything different than my first sentence? No, that was a simulpost. I was responding to **Nars Ginley**. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/90 "2012-06-18T21:27:08Z")
This is one of this things (showering at the same time as boys) that isn’t necessarily wrong. But given the circumstances, and society’s general prudishness toward nudity, this testimony isn’t doing Sandusky any favors. And, regardless, the bit about Brooks showering with his granddaughter at the YMCA is just creepy. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/91 "2012-06-18T21:42:50Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > What possible logical reason, other than sex, are you going to take someone to stay with you at a hotel in town? Playing keepy uppy with soap, giving showering lessons or some playful wrestling. > [@joebuck20](#): > > And, regardless, the bit about Brooks showering with his granddaughter at the YMCA is just creepy. It is in context, but my uncle showers with my 2 year old cousin. He says it saves time and I believe him. I doubt he’d use that fact as political capital though. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/92 "2012-06-18T22:31:27Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > This is one of this things (showering at the same time as boys) that isn’t necessarily wrong. Yeah, I’m totally willing to give him a pass on showering together. Right up until he fucked the kid. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/93 "2012-06-18T23:20:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > "Well – you might think that. I don’t know. In terms of – my relationship with so many, many young people. I would – I would guess that there are many young people who would come forward. Many more young people who would come forward and say that my methods and – and what I had done for them made a very positive impact on their life.” > > “And I didn’t go around seeking out every young person for sexual needs that I’ve helped. There are many that I didn’t have – I hardly had any contact with who I have helped in many, many ways," he added. Uh…I didn’t click on the link, but why was this cut from the broadcast? This is the very definition of WTF. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/94 "2012-06-19T00:12:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s a difference between people showering at the same time and a man taking a shower with a boy he isn’t related to. I’m just wondering if the defense is scoring any points with the jury. Yes, men and boys shower together sometimes. Maybe some people don’t know that? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/95 "2012-06-19T00:28:14Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I’m just wondering if the defense is scoring any points with the jury. Yes, men and boys shower together sometimes. Maybe some people don’t know that? I think most people might be able to call up a childhood memory of showering with a parent (or a memory of showering with their own child). Showering with someone else’s child is another story - and we’re also talking about boys who are old enough that they would not want to shower with another man. In any case this shower thing is not the whole issue. The prosecution called one witness who said he’s throw away his underwear after Sandusky had sex with him (because he would bleed afterward) and his mother corroborated that story by saying she often noticed his underwear wasn’t in the wash. Arguing about the nature of the shower won’t make that go away. They have to hope the jury doesn’t believe it at all. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/96 "2012-06-19T01:58:47Z")
When we say “men showering with boys” are we talking about the stereotypical locker room shower, the giant room with 10 to 12 shower heads around the perimeter? If so, I can see a situation where people are coming in an out and there may be a time when it is only one man and one boy there. That is a situation that was common when I was growing up. Are we talking about 1 man and 1 boy together in a residential shower? Then I agree with most of the posters here. But otherwise, I agree with\*\* Nars Glinley\*\*. Locker room showering with men and boys mixed together was (is?) common place and certainly nothing sexual. I’m not suggesting that was what Sandusky did, but the blanket statement that a man and a boy in a locker room shower is inappropriate is something that I have never heard until this case. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/97 "2012-06-19T02:14:24Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > When we say “men showering with boys” are we talking about the stereotypical locker room shower, the giant room with 10 to 12 shower heads around the perimeter? Based on the testimony, this is probably the situation. Of course, based on the testimony, Sandusky insisted that at least one of the boys switch from a shower across the room to a shower right next to him. And they were the only ones using the facility at the time. That’s not illegal by itself, I guess, but I’ve never heard of locker room etiquette where it was anything less than full on weird and squicky to directly ask an unrelated male to make such a switch, much less a weekend “personal” training session where you hit the showers after 20 minutes. It smacks of prison shower scenes, actually. The other coaches also seemed to indicate they meant typical locker room showers, though it’s not clear from what little I’ve read of their stuff that they meant they were ever alone with small boys with nobody else in the facility. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/98 "2012-06-19T02:19:58Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But otherwise, I agree with\*\* Nars Glinley\*\*. Locker room showering with men and boys mixed together was (is?) common place and certainly nothing sexual. I’m not suggesting that was what Sandusky did, but the blanket statement that a man and a boy in a locker room shower is inappropriate is something that I have never heard until this case. It would be different, of course, if we were talking about a traditional [Turkish bath.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_bath#Tellak_.28staff.29)_(Tellak_ being, in effect, Turkish for “boy handjob-whore.”) ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/99 "2012-06-19T16:33:36Z")
The Fox article that **Magiver** linked to says in the second-to-last paragraph that Sandusky is “expected to take the stand this week.” Is that true? I have seen a bit of speculation about this that I interpreted as wishful thinking. Does anyone seriously expect this jerk to actually testify? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/100 "2012-06-19T16:47:23Z")
His lawyer has said he may testify but I don’t think anyone has been more specific than that. Remarkably, even under the circumstances he found a way to make a tacky joke and remind people that he is approximately as digusting as his client: > [@](#): > > Defense attorney Joe Amendola told reporters earlier Tuesday to “stay tuned” to find out if Sandusky would take the stand himself, comparing the case to a soap opera. Asked which soap opera, defense attorney Joe Amendola initially said “General Hospital,” then “All My Children.” The judge said the jury will probably start deliberations by Thursday, so this probably won’t last much longer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190.md?page=6)