# Is there any chance that Sandusky is found not guilty? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190 "2012-06-15T01:10:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Khym\_Chanur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Khym\_Chanur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khym_Chanur)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/161 "2012-06-22T04:20:29Z")
> [@Gskala01](#): > > You get where I’m going with this? That the media is somehow controlling the jury. _How_ the media is controlling the jury is entirely unclear, however. ---
**Author:** ![Gskala01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@Gskala01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gskala01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/162 "2012-06-22T04:21:42Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Highly doubt he’s acquitted, but if he is, expect the State of Texas to go after him for the abuse that took place in San Antonio at Penn State’s appearance at the Alamo Bowl. excellent point! It would be a fairer trial too because most of the jury has worked for or have close relatives that worked for Penn State. The judge is an old Second Mile supporter (probably a Sandusky friend as well). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/163 "2012-06-22T04:23:53Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’m wondering if with that kind of instruction there won’t be **one** juror to hang the whole thing.. Kinda reminds me of the general concept that EVERY juror must agree. Who came up with that idea? Common experience seems to indicate that in any group there is often at least one person that makes everybody else go WTF? Not, we don’t agree with your logic but your logic doesn’t even exist. I guess you could dress that up as that one person being the lone voice of reason but IME very often they are just the statistically regular dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![Gskala01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@Gskala01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gskala01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/164 "2012-06-22T04:29:30Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What are the odds that the jury gets the case tomorrow, finds him guilty in less than an hour, and Sandusky is locked up tomorrow making tonight his last night of freedom? First of all, I find it hard to believe they’ll find him Not Guilty, but it’s such a real possibility that I wouldn’t even assume a guilty verdict is in the bag. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/165 "2012-06-22T05:19:32Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’m wondering if with that kind of instruction there won’t be one juror to hang the whole thing.. Then there will be another trial on the same indictment. A hung jury means a mistrial – no double jeopardy attaches. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/166 "2012-06-22T05:48:32Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I also find it a bit insulting to the victims that the defense would somehow insinuate that they hired attorneys in order to file a civil suit against Sandusky. Sure I guess that normally financial gain could be a reason to lie about someone, but I know that at 18 or even 28 I wouldn’t have lied about being anal raped by an old dude to get a couple hundred grand. And I personally think that the victims have every right to seek financial compensation for the trauma he put them through. No kidding. I don’t know why the witnesses didn’t address this directly by asserting their right to financial compensation for being assraped as children. If some local football coach hero sticks his cock into me without my consent you’re goddamned right I’m going to sue. That doesn’t make everything I say a lie. Where does that kind of twisted logic even come from? Along with saying he’s got a “personality disorder” that makes him appear exactly like a child molester except he isn’t. WTF? If the jury believes that they deserve to have sexual predators in their community “showering” with their children. I’m stunned it has taken more than five minutes for this jury. If I was on it we’d be back five seconds later saying “He’s guilty as shit and I know we don’t get to decide sentencing but we recommend the rest of his life in jail plus five hundred years.” ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/167 "2012-06-22T06:52:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If you turn on any TV right about now I expect you’ll hear that one of Sandusky’s adopted sons now says he was molested. I think there were rumors before the trial about a family member who might’ve been abused, although I think that was someone different. So maybe there will be more charges in the unlikely event of an acquittal. [Good call](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18544185). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/168 "2012-06-22T08:39:56Z")
Okay, I know we’ve moved past this, but I want to address the first few posts: You don’t need all 12 jurors to be a member of NAMBLA, but only one, due to the unanimity requirement and the presumption of innocence. That said, I seriously doubt anyone like that is on the jury. And if there were, he might still just go along with everyone else as it would be hard to argue against without revealing his pedophilia. And, like people said, NAMBLA is for what they consider consensual pederasty, not one where the victim is clearly protesting. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/169 "2012-06-22T09:22:50Z")
Here’s the NYT on the abused son, Matt Sandusky: > **[Sandusky’s Adopted Son, Claiming Abuse, Offered to Testify at Trial...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/sports/ncaafootball/sandusky-judge-instructs-jury-before-closing-arguments.html?pagewanted=all)** > > Lawyers for one of Jerry Sandusky’s adopted children said Thursday that he had been abused by Sandusky, and had offered to testify in the case. I’m not sure why he didn’t come forward earlier, or why the prosecution didn’t pursue it. Maybe he’s their ace in the hole. The NYT seems to think there could be more criminal charges filed later after this trial is over. Regarding the Judge’s instructions, the Times had this to say: > [@](#): > > The arguments and testimony in the case took nine days, and the jury must sift through 48 charges; 4 others were dismissed. Judge John M. Cleland ordered the jury sequestered while it deliberates, and if there is no verdict by late Friday, deliberations will continue into the weekend. > > Some of the charges involve overtly sexual acts, including anal and oral sex with a minor, that, if proved, are clearly illegal. But Cleland cautioned the jury that other charges were far more ambiguous, involving contact that could be either innocent or criminal. > > “It’s not necessarily a crime, for example, for a man to take a shower with a boy,” or even lather the boy’s hair or soap his back, the judge said, referring to behavior attributed to Sandusky. The critical question in those instances, he said, is whether the adult makes the contact for sexual arousal. > > “The issue is not what the child felt,” Cleland said. “The issue is what the defendant intended.” Which sounds like the argument I was trying to make back in the gym socks thread a few weeks ago. Different states, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/170 "2012-06-22T13:19:35Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’m not sure why he didn’t come forward earlier, or why the prosecution didn’t pursue it. The news accounts I’ve seen is that he only contacted the prosecutors this week. That’s way too late for them to add to the current charges, and they would have an uphill battle trying to get his testimony in as part of their case. However, there is speculation that him coming forward is what led to the decision not to call Sandusky himself as a defence witness, as the likelihood was that he would say something that might justify calling the son as a rebuttal prosecution witness. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/171 "2012-06-22T13:43:17Z")
> [@Gskala01](#): > > We’re groaning and outraged when we hear “Not Guilty”, be it O.J., Jacko, Casey Anthony. Am I wrong about this? Because my theory is that this is how American Media works. If Sandusky gets a “Guilty” verdict, no one will groan, or even cheer for that matter, but maybe we’ll feel relieved a monster is put away, but in the process we’ll feel let down by the media because the spectacle did not get a rousing closure we tuned in for. In the vein of the O.J. trial, if there is an acquittal, we’ll be treated to endless clips of child molesters cheering at the announcement juxtaposed with clips of the rest of us groaning in disbelief. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/172 "2012-06-22T13:55:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If you turn on any TV right about now I expect you’ll hear that one of Sandusky’s adopted sons now says he was molested. I think there were rumors before the trial about a family member who might’ve been abused, although I think that was someone different. So maybe there will be more charges in the unlikely event of an acquittal. The prosecution has to walk a tightrope WRT additional charges. If Sandusky is convicted, additional charges will come across as a pile-on. If he’s acquitted, additional charges may look like the prosecution’s desperate to get him on something, so they’re going to keep doing it until something sticks. I also think that the Penn State love is being way overstated here. You can’t go anywhere in Pennsylvania without finding ardent fans and supporters and alumni, and the Paterno worship (which is still overstated) doesn’t extend to Sandusky. The zeitgeist is now that Sandusky deserves to go away and that his actions are his alone. Frankly, to the university’s credit, they seem to want to do right by Sandusky’s victims. They’ve cleaned house and are willing to do what they can to help the victims. How much of this is genuine and how much is PR remains to be seen, but there does seem to be some genuine sympathy for these boys. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/173 "2012-06-22T14:48:30Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > The prosecution has to walk a tightrope WRT additional charges. If Sandusky is convicted, additional charges will come across as a pile-on. If he’s acquitted, additional charges may look like the prosecution’s desperate to get him on something, so they’re going to keep doing it until something sticks. If he’s convicted I suspect they won’t bother charging him again. There’s not much point and it’s hard to imagine a scenario where he’s convicted but doesn’t definitively get put away for life considering his age and the sheer number of charges against him. I don’t know if it would be difficult to go through all of this again if he’s acquitted, but I don’t think many people will by sympathetic to the victim of the “piling on.” The interesting thing about the accusations from the son is that after Sandusky was arrested, we heard that there was a restraining order filed against him relating to one of his grandchildren. Now we know that restraining order was filed by Matt Sandusky’s ex-wife. She obviously knew he’d been abused and you have to wish he’d just come forward earlier. Meanwhile the jurors are deliberating again and it’s reported they asked to hear testimony from McQueary and Dranov again. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/174 "2012-06-22T14:59:31Z")
I wonder if the son and close relatives not coming forward till late in the game was a strategy on their own personal part. I could see myself thinking “I hope they nail that SOB and its looking good, but just in case I’ll hold back so we can get a second shot if the jury goes crazy”. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/175 "2012-06-22T15:07:51Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I also think that the Penn State love is being way overstated here. You can’t go anywhere in Pennsylvania without finding ardent fans and supporters and alumni, and the Paterno worship (which is still overstated) doesn’t extend to Sandusky. The zeitgeist is now that Sandusky deserves to go away and that his actions are his alone. I was thinking the same thing. Everyone was up in arms because of the Penn State connections with some (or was it all) of the jurors, the argument being, “they’ll just whitewash the whole thing to save Penn State.” But if Penn State were beloved to me, I’d want the creepy child molester strung up by his thumbs on the campus quad. How dare he sully the name of my beloved blah blah blah. In fact, I had just about the opposite reaction that most had when I heard about the jury. I figured – stacked for the prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/176 "2012-06-22T17:40:02Z")
Indeed, jurors are [reviewing testimony](http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/22/12357041-jurors-review-key-testimony-in-trial-of-jerry-sandusky?ocid=ansmsnbc11)from McQueary (the only first-hand witness to testify) and Dranov (the Dr. that McQueary spoke with after seeing Sandusky in the showers). I don’t think this is good for the prosecution. McQueary’s and Dranov’s testimonies don’t quite line up. McQueary was very sure about exactly what he saw. Dranov, on the other hand, did not get that impression from McQueary shortly after the incident. Dranov, being a doctor, would have been legally obligated to report any suspicion of child abuse. Going through some of reader comments at the linked article, there are apparently some Sandusky defenders…or at least people who are not entirely convinced. As for the PSU connections on the jury, it’s hard to say which way that cuts, but I initially thought it was beneficial to the defense. Having love for PSU and JoePa could lead to a desire to clear their names in this mess, which only happens if Sandusky never did anything wrong. I don’t hold to that theory quite as strongly as I did before reading the testimony, but I still think college football fanatics can be irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/177 "2012-06-22T17:42:02Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Indeed, jurors are [reviewing testimony](http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/22/12357041-jurors-review-key-testimony-in-trial-of-jerry-sandusky?ocid=ansmsnbc11)from McQueary (the only first-hand witness to testify) and Dranov (the Dr. that McQueary spoke with after seeing Sandusky in the showers). > > I don’t think this is good for the prosecution. I don’t know about that. The jury has to deal with every single count. They might have decided guilt on all the other ones, but they still need to deal with this one. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/178 "2012-06-22T17:51:06Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I also think that the Penn State love is being way overstated here. You can’t go anywhere in Pennsylvania without finding ardent fans and supporters and alumni, and the Paterno worship (which is still overstated) doesn’t extend to Sandusky. The zeitgeist is now that Sandusky deserves to go away and that his actions are his alone. I know plenty of the ardent Penn State faithful, and if anything, they vilify Sandusky. He is both an evil pedophile AND the man who tainted the pristine program and toppled St. Joe through those horrible actions. The consensus I hear (here in PA) is that they want him strung up by his balls. IOW, I’d say they may hate him even more than the average man on the street does. So, I’m essentially agreeing, but pointing out that the Penn State love may actually be in play, but not in the way the defense hopes. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/179 "2012-06-22T23:14:25Z")
> [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > In the vein of the O.J. trial, if there is an acquittal, we’ll be treated to endless clips of child molesters cheering at the announcement juxtaposed with clips of the rest of us groaning in disbelief. I’m not from the US, but wouldn’t the appropriate comparison be to retired football coaches cheering? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190/180 "2012-06-22T23:16:25Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > In the vein of the O.J. trial, if there is an acquittal, we’ll be treated to endless clips of child molesters cheering at the announcement juxtaposed with clips of the rest of us groaning in disbelief. Well, child molesters tend to avoid the cameras for some reason . . . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-chance-that-sandusky-is-found-not-guilty/625190.md?page=10)