# Is there any connection between Socrates's monotheism and Judaism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690 "2015-08-24T04:19:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/1 "2015-08-24T04:19:37Z")
Hi Is there any connection between Socrates’s monotheism and Judaism? Was Socrates influenced by Judaism? I look forward to your feedback. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/2 "2015-08-24T05:23:32Z")
Is there any evidence that Socrates was a monotheist? We don’t have any of his writings but other people who wrote about him (mainly Plato) have Socrates referring to _the gods_ not to _a god_. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/3 "2015-08-24T08:38:15Z")
There is almost certainly a connection between Platonism and Christianity. See, for example, [Philo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_works), whose works were often referenced and kept in Christian libraries during the first couple of centuries of the religion. Though, later, this connection was played down and largely expunged. But Jewish monotheism was clearly coming into form previous to 500 BC (and probably even before 600 BC), so even if Socrates was a monotheist, he was born too late to influence Judaism. It would be more likely that Zoroastrianism influenced both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/4 "2015-08-24T09:00:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > There is almost certainly a connection between Platonism and Christianity. […] Though, later, this connection was played down and largely expunged. When and how, though? Certainly Plato was held in high regard in Christian thought all throughout the medieval era, no…? > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It would be more likely that Zoroastrianism influenced both of them. Would you care to expand on the possibility of Zoroastrianism influencing Plato? I have heard of the possibility of Zoroastrianism influencing pre-Socratic philosophers, generally, and Heraclitus, specifically - but never Plato. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/5 "2015-08-24T10:00:12Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > When and how, though? Certainly Plato was held in high regard in Christian thought all throughout the medieval era, no…? That veers into Great Debates territory. There’s a difference, for example, between respecting that smoking is a risky habit and accepting that you’re actually killing yourself. There’s a strong argument to be made that the Christianity which Jesus taught was little more than a variant of Jewish Neoplatonism, but that is not the Christianity recorded in the orthodox works passed down to us today and the texts that we have, which are accepted to be from the 1st century, do not support that argument. > [@](#): > > Would you care to expand on the possibility of Zoroastrianism influencing Plato? I have heard of the possibility of Zoroastrianism influencing pre-Socratic philosophers, generally, and Heraclitus, specifically - but never Plato. Plato does explicitly mention Zoroaster in [Alcibiades I](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1676/1676-h/1676-h.htm), so clearly he was aware of the religion. How much that influenced his ideas, positively or negatively, I would leave up to philosophy majors. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/6 "2015-08-24T10:45:56Z")
> **[Was Socrates an atheist?](https://andreaskluth.org/2010/01/02/was-socrates-an-atheist/)** > > Toward the end of my three-page article about “Socrates in America” in the Christmas issue of The Economist, there are these two lines: Socrates almost certainly was an atheist. As was … … Socrates repeatedly invokes not only gods, but “the god”, as in this famous passage from the Apology: “Athenians, I honor and love you, but I shall obey the god rather than you” (29d). Socrates further asserts that he has been specially chosen by “the god” to persuade the people of Athens of their ignorance (23b) and that abandoning this mission would mean also abandoning his god (30a)… ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/7 "2015-08-24T10:49:29Z")
or alternatively… > **[Was Socrates a monotheist or polytheist?](https://www.quora.com/Was-Socrates-a-monotheist-or-polytheist)** > > Answer (1 of 4): Socrates may have believed in the Greek gods the same way many Buddhists believe in Devas / Mara as an inner aspect of human psychology. In many cases the Greek gods were thought to act within the human mind, such as the Muses,... "Several characteristics of Socrates sound suspiciously similar to traits commonly attributed to spiritually awakened people: Deep appreciation for not knowing Primarily a teacher Allegory of the cave Love of comedy/farce/paradox Known for meditation / samadhi? “his curious cataleptic seizures, when he stared into the distance for hours on end” If Socrates was awakened, then at root he was likely a monotheist /pantheist /atheist as is the common way prescribed by the messengers in the most popular world religions. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/8 "2015-08-24T15:21:27Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > [Was Socrates an atheist? | Hannibal and Me: life lessons from history](http://andreaskluth.org/2010/01/02/was-socrates-an-atheist/) > > … Socrates repeatedly invokes not only gods, but “the god”, as in this famous passage from the Apology: “Athenians, I honor and love you, but I shall obey the god rather than you” (29d). Socrates further asserts that he has been specially chosen by “the god” to persuade the people of Athens of their ignorance (23b) and that abandoning this mission would mean also abandoning his god (30a)… I don’t speak Greek. But my understanding is that what Socrates actually said was that he obeyed his daimonion. This basically translates as divine guidance. A modern person raised in a Judeo-Christian culture is going to translate the idea of divine guidance as coming from God. But Socrates lived in a polytheistic culture. People in his time would assume divine guidance came from a group of gods. If Socrates had been a monotheist he would have stood separate from his contemporaries on that issue. So you would expect he would have raised the issue and explicitly discussed his beliefs. But as far as I know he did not. He simply made remarks that could be interpreted as monotheistic. But I feel that doing so is simply projecting our own monotheism back unto Socrates. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/9 "2015-08-25T01:43:18Z")
Thanks Little Nemo. Your point about “projecting our own monotheism back unto Socrates” makes sense. Paul Johnson’s “Socrates: A Man Of Our Times” is a perfect example of this. ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/10 "2015-08-25T01:57:07Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > [Was Socrates an atheist? | Hannibal and Me: life lessons from history](http://andreaskluth.org/2010/01/02/was-socrates-an-atheist/) > > … Socrates repeatedly invokes not only gods, but “the god”, as in this famous passage from the Apology: “Athenians, I honor and love you, but I shall obey the god rather than you” (29d). Socrates further asserts that he has been specially chosen by “the god” to persuade the people of Athens of their ignorance (23b) and that abandoning this mission would mean also abandoning his god (30a)… Socrates was a polytheist because he respectfully references a variety of Gods from the Athenian pantheon. Furthermore, he makes it clear that without a good argument against the way things are you go along with that part of things, especially when it comes to civic duties. Polytheistic religion was civic duty in Athens and he never argues it is wrong. He talks in the translations all the time about _the god_ because in the original he often makes references to _ho theos_ which is indeed the singular of that noun with a definite article. But if you take it with reference to general pre-Christian Greek usage, it seems to be a way to indicate whichever specific one of the Greek gods is relevant at the moment. Greek polytheists were very humble about not knowing for sure which god should be referred to in a given situation, especially when they prayed. This is a similar usage – I will say _the god_ because I am afraid I am not sure which of them is right to name, but I sure know one of them should be referenced – so I will keep it a bit ambiguous by not using a name, but still acknowledge that I understand there is one god in particular that presides here by using a definite article. Most translations punt here by going super literal and translating as _the god_ even though to a modern audience in a world shaped so heavily by Judeo-Christian-Muslim monotheism this is going to sound more familiar to them than it should. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/11 "2015-08-25T02:02:58Z")
Little Nemo, I accept your argument that Socrates was following his daemon. I don’t think we should call him a “monotheist”. But just for reference this is what Paul Johnson has to say: page 107 “Socrates: A Man For Our Times” “Socrates did not believe in the traditional pantheon of Greek religion, with gods specializing in particular services and leading tumultuous lives that were mere mythology or fiction than serious religion. When Socrates was at his most devout, he always refers to “god” or “the god”, not “the gods”. He was a monotheist” p. 107 Paul Johnson “Socrates: A Man For Our Times” ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/12 "2015-08-25T02:07:19Z")
" I will say the god because I am afraid I am not sure which of them is right to name, but I sure know one of them should be referenced – so I will keep it a bit ambiguous by not using a name, but still acknowledge that I understand there is one god in particular that presides here by using a definite article. Most translations punt here by going super literal and translating as the god even though to a modern audience in a world shaped so heavily by Judeo-Christian-Muslim monotheism this is going to sound more familiar to them than it should." Thank you Vaevictus. I wasn’t aware of this. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/13 "2015-08-25T03:29:17Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > When and how, though? Certainly Plato was held in high regard in Christian thought all throughout the medieval era, no…? No. Not in Western Christianity, at least. Medieval Western Europe had Calcidius’a Latin translation of parts of the Timaeus and his commentary on it, and in the 1200s, the Sicillian clergyman and politician Henricus Aristippus translated the Phaedo and the Meno into Latin, but most of Plato’s stuff wasn’t known in Western Europe until the fall of Constantinople. ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/14 "2015-08-25T15:01:52Z")
Vaevictus, perhaps you can recommend a good comprehensive book on the way the ancient Greeks prayed to their gods. ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/15 "2015-08-27T01:29:46Z")
Prayer in Greek Religion by Simon Pulleyn ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/16 "2015-08-27T03:48:21Z")
Thanks Vaevictus. Thank you all. davidmich ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-socratess-monotheism-and-judaism/728690/17 "2015-08-27T04:04:10Z")
The Jews don’t seem to have been much of a presence in the Classical Greek world. Herodotus doesn’t mention them at all, despite giving a pretty long description of many others peoples under Persian rule. And I don’t think any Greek writer mentions them, even in passing, prior to the conquests of Alexander. Presumably that close to the end of the Babylonian Captivity there either weren’t enough of them to attract notice, or they were too culturally assimilated with wider Mesopotamian culture to stand out as a distinct people to outsiders. So while there’s no way to know for certain, I doubt Socrates would’ve heard of Judaism.