# Is there any connection between the contemporary slang "baller" and the 60s usage of "ball"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 3, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361 "2018-06-03T17:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/1 "2018-06-03T17:03:01Z")
I’m reading Abbie Hoffman’s _Steal This Book_ and they’re always talking about “balling”, aka fucking. It’s not the first time I’ve seen or heard this usage in books or movies about the 60s. (Jerry Garcia also said “Ballin’ that jack” on _Easy Wind_, but that might be a completely different usage entirely.) Today, when we say “baller”, we mean…well, kind of what “pimp” means. Something generally badass, whether it’s a house, a car, an outfit, or a person. I think it may have origins in basketball, since obviously a basketball star is a type of hero and represents high financial and social status, as well as a kind of style and attitude that is basically as cool as you can get. But is there any connection between this and the old 60s use of “ball” to mean “fuck”? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/2 "2018-06-03T20:27:26Z")
As an aside, I understood “balling the jack” to mean moving fast, but don’t know the origin. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/3 "2018-06-03T20:38:06Z")
It was a song written around 1910, and had a dance that went with it, like The Twist in the 1960s. But it was also a railway term meaning to go fast. Don’t know which came first. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/4 "2018-06-03T20:40:12Z")
And you might like Hoffman’s’ sequel, Steal this Urine Test, his critique of the drug hysteria of the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/5 "2018-06-03T21:22:54Z")
The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang has it’s first citation of “ball” = “fuck” in 1953 and it is of course still in use. It does not list “baller” in the OP sense (or in fact at all), so I guess that meaning postdates the dictionary’s publication (1994). The [Urban Dictionary defines “baller”](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=baller) as “A thug that has ‘made it’ to the big time. Originally refered[sic] ball players that made it out of the streets to make millions as a pro ball player, but now is used to describe any thug that is living large.” So I guess that’s the source of the adjective, although the Urban Dictionary is not a model of scholarship. The Historical Dictionary of American Slang’s definition of “ball the jack” is “to go fast (said esp. of a railroad train); make haste; to run away. [1913 quot. from a well-known ragtime song, gave the phrase wide currency and ref. specif. to the performance of a dance step presumably introduced by the song; whether the phrase itself was coined at the same time is uncertain.]” ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/6 "2018-06-03T22:36:38Z")
From the [Oxford Dictionary blog](https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/06/27/ballin-for-real/): > [@](#): > > The other way \*baller \*gets used in the US is precisely how Lil’ Troy drops it in the rhyme I quoted above. The OED defines this sense: > (With reference to the perceived tendency of successful basketball players to spend ostentatiously.) A person, esp. a drug dealer, who spends money freely and ostentatiously. Some good hip-hop citations, and from them it sure looks to me like “baller” comes from basketball, not from being a sex machine. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/7 "2018-06-03T22:52:10Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > From the [Oxford Dictionary blog](https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/06/27/ballin-for-real/): > > Some good hip-hop citations, and from them it sure looks to me like “baller” comes from basketball, not from being a sex machine. I coach high school cross-country and track and the kids will call a “never give up, never surrender” athlete a baller. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/8 "2018-06-03T23:06:39Z")
I know little about the term “baller”, but I can’t help but think about a 1970’s above-ground song by a black singer called The Swamp Fox, “I sure love to ball”, (and you do, too). It left little to the imagination: “Humpin’ and jumpin’…till we’re through…” ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/9 "2018-06-03T23:52:42Z")
In college I was talking to (aka “hitting on”) a woman at a party. Thinking of possible activities I could invite her to participate in, I asked her if she liked to bowl. I didn’t understand her horrified reaction until later, when I realized she probably misheard me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/10 "2018-06-04T00:12:28Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I know little about the term “baller”, but I can’t help but think about a 1970’s above-ground song by a black singer called The Swamp Fox, “I sure love to ball”, (and you do, too). It left little to the imagination: “Humpin’ and jumpin’…till we’re through…” While we’re at it, wasn’t “Good Golly, Miss Molly, you sure love to ball” not a double meaning? I always assumed it meant both, I assume, dancing or partying as well as “balling” in the sexual sense? Or do I just have a dirty mind? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/11 "2018-06-04T00:37:25Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > While we’re at it, wasn’t “Good Golly, Miss Molly, you sure love to ball” not a double meaning? I always assumed it meant both, I assume, dancing or partying as well as “balling” in the sexual sense? Or do I just have a dirty mind? No, it was actually pretty much a \*single \*meaning. Although some versions have “Good golly Miss Molly, you bounce like a ball.” Which doesn’t really make much sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/12 "2018-06-04T07:43:23Z")
Aah, this thread reminds me of [this classic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryDOy3AosBw) by Skee-lo ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-there-any-connection-between-the-contemporary-slang-baller-and-the-60s-usage-of-ball/815361/13 "2018-06-04T22:18:10Z")
Here are two other angles, one from my elementary school history class, and the other from the _A Way With Words_ radio show. In old-time railroading, there was a track-side signal with a big circle mounted on a hinged arm. If the ball was high, the track was clear of other trains (other trains, such as those coming in the other direction, were safely on sidings,) and you could speed up. If the ball was low, there was something in your way, and you had to go slow. They called it high-balling and low-balling. Later on, a highball was an alcoholic drink, usually spirits with seltzer or some other mixer. Today, high-balling and low-balling are usually about bidding or bargaining. From _WayWords,_ I learned that Balling the Jack was a song and a popular dance long ago.